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  •  but... but... it's all (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jim J, annieli

    OUR fault.  We're "addicted" to oil...

    meh...

    "We" had nothing to do with this disaster.

    "History is a tragedy, not a melodrama." - I.F.Stone

    by bigchin on Fri May 28, 2010 at 09:33:57 AM PDT

    •  There is validity to the argument... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wishingwell

      ... that we wouldn't be in this situation were it not for our addiction to oil, energy and our consumer based, throw away lifestyles.

      With this said, that does not excuse the corporations run amok, nor does it mean that we should not strive to change the government-corporate framework that continues the cycle that we seem to be trapped in.

      Nor does it absolve responsibility from BP nor the government to take deceive and effective action, to open up the information and the data, and to be honest to us about what's going on.

      The inadequate is the enemy of the necessary.

      by JRandomPoster on Fri May 28, 2010 at 09:40:50 AM PDT

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    •  Can't agree. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wishingwell, Bulldawg, lgmcp, jhw22

      You can pretend to wash your hands of it if that makes you feel better, but this nation uses way too much oil, and this disaster is a direct result.

      "They paved paradise, and put in a parking lot."
      "...Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone?"
      - Joni Mitchell

      by davewill on Fri May 28, 2010 at 09:41:26 AM PDT

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      •  Oil is a worldwide commodity (0+ / 0-)

        If the US were wonderfully energy-efficient and consumed no oil, but India and China did, and there were oil under the gulf, then they'd be drilling for it.  The US exports lots of things; that's how we can afford to import things.  (Some countries export far more than they use.  That's how come OPEC exists.)  The price of oil is based on worldwide supply and demand.  The trope "energy independence" is a political feel-good line with no real meaning today. Price is set by world markets.  Cost is set by local conditions (like how hard it is to get to the oil).  When price exceeds cost, there's room for profit.

        So when we have a valuable resource, it is reasonable to expect someone to want to extract it.  The issue is proper regulation.  Clearly BP wasn't regulated and supervised closely enough.  Their many short-cuts externalized the cost as risk, creating catastrophe.

        •  Cop out...and that's being kind. (0+ / 0-)

          If the U.S. lowers it's oil consumption, there are two results. One the oil becomes a little less valuable, and dangerous exploration less attractive. Particularly in places, like this one, where the U.S. is in control. Two, we can then work more fruitfully to lower worldwide oil consumption. Right now we sound pretty stupid trying to preach on the environment.

          Your argument is just the same tired one the corps use to excuse drill, baby, drill.

          "They paved paradise, and put in a parking lot."
          "...Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone?"
          - Joni Mitchell

          by davewill on Fri May 28, 2010 at 10:19:05 AM PDT

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          •  That's pretty US-centric, dave (0+ / 0-)

            US demand is a significant portion of worldwide demand, but as the US becomes a smaller and smaller portion of the world economy, our share of energy consumption will also fall, and out demand's importance to commodity pricing will fall.  Conservation here will just speed that along.  But the supply of cheap oil worldwide is declining, so the commodity market will still want Louisiana crude if the cost of extracting it is not too high.

            Not a lot of Liberians wear diamonds, but it hasn't stopped the blood diamond trade there.

            High-minded morality tales that are perceived as  desiring a primitive, low-energy society in the US (everybody bikes or rides a train from their un-air-conditioned 600 sq. ft. city apartment, or rides a chicken-powered tractor on their organic farm, etc.) play into the political opposition, which tells the middle class that they want to preserve their more comfortable way of life.  You figure out which one gets the votes.

            •  No, it's a start. (0+ / 0-)

              If you can't clean up your own house, how are you going to clean up the world?

              Your answer seems to be the burn it as fast as possible till it's gone. F*** that.

              "They paved paradise, and put in a parking lot."
              "...Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone?"
              - Joni Mitchell

              by davewill on Fri May 28, 2010 at 10:40:47 AM PDT

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