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View Diary: NUKE IT : Revisited (163 comments)

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  •  No. (21+ / 0-)
    The soil down there is loose looose loose to at least 3000' below the seafloor. A nuke would cause a lensing effect, not unlike a shaped charge. It would turn the well casing into a molten plasma dagger aimed right at the heart of the producing strata.

    Open it up to where you could never close it.

    And I don't want to hear about the Russians doing it. That well WAS NOT anything like this well. That Russian well was a small fart compared to this monster.

    It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

    by Fishgrease on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 02:44:38 PM PDT

    •  That makes perfect sense FG I once ran a boat (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Fishgrease, ETF

      aground in the S.F. bay by stupidly ignoring the "red right return rule" or "left leaving rule"...Got way the hell out of the dredged shipping channel at about Cnina basin or 1/3 way to Redwood city harbor.

      Where we got out of the boat it was ~ 3 feet deep and the make up of the floor was like beach sand at first glance.
      It turned out to be crushed up shells.. trillions & gazillions of nothing but ocean critters shells.

      All completely soft and deep as could be seen & felt.

      If the ocean floor is anything like that..

      I don't want your country back..I want my country forward - Bill Maher

      by Eric Nelson on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 02:58:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  did you watch the video (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      vets74

      the heat from the nuke would be no where near the well casing.

      All liberal values can be summed into a single issue: The dismantling of the American Middle Class. Publicly Funded U.S. Politics NOW!!!

      by innereye on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 03:21:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  if you mean by (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      vets74

      clay being loose loose loose, then I must agree with you.

      that being said, clay has a wonderful compression ability to absorb impact and maintain its structure, much more than brittle rock.

      if anything, the additional pressure of the water above the surface will help to contain the oil.

      the drill hole of the russian well was of similar size and construction.

      I don't know why you would say it is incomparable.

      All liberal values can be summed into a single issue: The dismantling of the American Middle Class. Publicly Funded U.S. Politics NOW!!!

      by innereye on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 03:32:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No. Not clay. (5+ / 0-)

        Nothing near the consitency of even garden dirt for thousands and thousands of feet.

        You're uninformed and advocating bullshit.

        Stop it.

        It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

        by Fishgrease on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 03:44:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  help me out (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          vets74

          by giving me a source.

          All liberal values can be summed into a single issue: The dismantling of the American Middle Class. Publicly Funded U.S. Politics NOW!!!

          by innereye on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 03:45:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Go to TheOildrum (5+ / 0-)

            read ROCKMAN

            And I AM helping you out. You just refuse to see that.

            It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

            by Fishgrease on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 03:49:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  sorry fishgrease but you are wrong (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              vets74

              the ooze is only 50 cm thick

              only the Campeche contribution can be recognized in the abyssal plain. The upper 10 m of sediment in the slope, rise, plain, and Mississippi cone is capped with a 20-50 cm layer of Globigerina ooze. Below this ooze the sediments are dominantly argillaceous lutite interstratified with terrigenous (siliciclastic) and nonterrigenous (carbonate) sand and silt interbeds 1 mm-150 cm thick. Other sediment varieties include locally developed conglomerates and calcilutites.

              so after the first 50 cm down it is stratified layers of mud and sand.

              don't know who told you that it was ooze for "thousands and thousands of feet" but they lied to you.

              All liberal values can be summed into a single issue: The dismantling of the American Middle Class. Publicly Funded U.S. Politics NOW!!!

              by innereye on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 04:15:46 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That doesn't say anything about it (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                BlackSheep1, kalmoth

                being at 5000' at this leak site.

                ROCKMAN is a geologist who has worked in The Gulf and very near where this well is. I believe him.

                Not responding to you further.

                Cut this nuke shit out.

                It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

                by Fishgrease on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 04:28:26 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  what I learned (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  kalmoth

                  from dt at theoildrum

                  1. Geology of Mississippi Canyon block, like most of the northern GOM, is is mixture of young (Tertiary) clastics and salt. Clastics are generally alternating layers of sandstone and shales. No (or little) carbonate. Shallow depths are poorly consolidated (sands and clays). I am not sure how much salt is in the MC 252 block but I suspect the Macondo prospect is in a salt-related trap (turbidite sands?)(maybe even sub-salt???). Salt structure can be very complex. It originated in the Jurassic Louann (sp?) but has become mobile due overlying sediments and now forms diapirs, sheets, and a variety of other structures. Salt is less dense and will flow (slowly) under differential pressure.
                  1. Faults are either normal faults related to salt tectonics or growth faults.
                  1. A sub-surface explosion generally creates a cavity from vaporization surrounded by shattered (non-elastic deformation) and crushed material. Fractures extend past that. Past a certain distance the shock wave travels elastically. Usually the cavity collapses shortly after the blast and forms a "chimney" of shattered rock. Effect vary depending on the water table and surrounding rock type. As this would be in saturated material, the effects might vary significantly from an NTS shot where the ground water is much deeper. As far as I know no-one has ever detonated in an underwater borehole. See http://geology.er.usgs.gov/... for examples of explosion effects in rock.
                  1. The Soviets tried nuclear tests to 'frac' gas reservoirs to increase flow as well as for long-range seismic sources. This was also done in the US at Rio Blanco Colorado (3 simultaneous) and at Rulison - Rulison was part of the Plowshare program. They produced more gas but was deemed too radioactive to produce (in the US at least). Also an event in New Mexico to generate heat and steam.
                  1. My own suspicion was that the use of Soviet nuclear devices to stop their well was primarily to frac and stopping the blow-out was a secondary effect (but planned). It would be interesting to see if the uncontrolled Soviet wells were cased or not. I suspect that might make a significant difference, as an uncased well would likely be more likely to collapse. My guess is that they were uncased and that they blew out while drilling (unlike Macondo, in which drilling was completed). It may be possible to tell from the video of the Urta-Bulak test.
                  1. Effects on geology would likely be minimal more than a 1000 meters or away from the blast. SALMON and STERLING were detonated in a salt dome not too far away (Hattiesburg, MS) and did not have catastrophic effects on the Gulf Coast (these were done to test the effects of a explosion in a cavity [decoupling]). At any rate, fractures at depth close up unless held open by fluid. The seal on Macondo is likely shale, possibly evaporites, and there are many thousands of feet of shale layers above that and so the chances of allowing the reservoir (at 18 k feet) to seep are exceedingly slim, in my opinion, for a reasonable size event. Nuclear explosions do sometimes have associated slight tectonic release (detectable on a seismogram or nearby fault slip). Possibly it might trigger landslides on the seafloor which might endanger nearby pipelines. The energy release would be roughly equivalent to a magnitude 4 or 5 earthquake. An M 5.8 earthquake in the GOM a few years (Sept 2006) ago did not cause any damage that I know of.
                  1. Close enough to the hole it would likely collapse it and the casing. I am not sure how close "close enough" is. It would need to be at some depth to reduce radiation emission. Too far might just break whatever cement is left between the casing and rock in the well.
                  1. NTS (Nevada Test Sites) boreholes were typically much wider in diameter than an standard oil well (big enough to fall down, as happened at least once). It is not clear to me whether it is possible to drill this size borehole in deepwater with available rigs. Perhaps devices exist that can fit down a narrower hole. The question is whether these devices would be capable of functioning under these pressures and seawater as well. I have no idea. The last US test was in 1992 and the capability to test is likely much diminished. My own guess is that this is a show-stopper. Even it was decided to go nuclear tomorrow it seems unlikely to me that it could be accomplished faster than the relief wells [and a LOT more expensive].
                  1. Not obvious to me that it would work with a high likelihood of success. Might make it worse, if energy release is unexpectedly asymmetric and it only breaks the cement/casing. Or breaks a nearby pipeline.

                  All liberal values can be summed into a single issue: The dismantling of the American Middle Class. Publicly Funded U.S. Politics NOW!!!

                  by innereye on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 04:51:51 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Bingo. But don't expect the facts to interrupt (0+ / 0-)

                the spew.

                Angry White Males + Personality Disorder delusionals + Career criminals + White Racists + Pro-Life Christians =EQ= The GOPer Base

                by vets74 on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 05:17:42 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Geology of the Gulf is well known. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            innereye

            And if the sea bad was 100% sand, that would be perfect for using a nuke.

            The softer the better.

            What matters is getting sufficient depth to generate a large PSI seal while avoiding fissures -- which only appear in hard, brittle formations.

            Fishgrease is blowing smoke out his keester.

            His notion of the nuke acting like a shape-charge and sending a plasma down into the oil layer had me laughing.

            Angry White Males + Personality Disorder delusionals + Career criminals + White Racists + Pro-Life Christians =EQ= The GOPer Base

            by vets74 on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 05:16:47 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Sorry, Fishgrease. That is nonsense. (0+ / 0-)

      The strata is sedimentary rock, which goes far down.

      "A lensing effect, not unlike a shaped charge..."

      "Molten plasma dagger aimed right at the heart of the producing strata."

      Really ???

      And who has genned up a simulation showing that result ?

      Anybody with experience testing nuclear warheads ?

      Anybody with access to the Livermore nuke test results ?

      Or maybe keeping the site open for business is one of the core requirements for acceptable solutions ? Because nuking the site will end commercial use whether or not there is factual contamination of the oil.

      We all know that.

      Angry White Males + Personality Disorder delusionals + Career criminals + White Racists + Pro-Life Christians =EQ= The GOPer Base

      by vets74 on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 05:09:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  cannot do pinch-off in sediment, correct n/t (0+ / 0-)

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