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View Diary: BP Oilpocalypse ROV Diary #55 (334 comments)

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  •  Posted this in the other ROV just as we moved: (13+ / 0-)

    I know we're switching to a new ROV soon, but I've been reading British history and mulling something over in the back of my mind.

    Several of my ... acquaintances ... from home are using this disaster as an opportunity to more vocally advocate for drilling in ANWR.  Apparently, Krauthammer published a story today that's encapsulated in this status update from Facebook: "My 8th grade history teacher ... wonders why people want to punish innocent people who work for BP by not buying gas at their stores (as if that's really punishing BP), but yet never even question the ignorant, incompetent politicians who've made it a practical impossibility to spend less money to drill on land in wide open vacant places like ANWR where this thing would've been much less likely to happen and much easier to stop and clean up."

    I find their comments hypocritical, to say the very least, (especially since they're ranting about 11 dead from the Gulf and our fishing industry, etc) and I'm remembering reading somewhere that the difficulty of drilling in ANWR is similar to that of deep water drilling, not least because (1) the cold is very bad for moving oil from point a to point b, (2) the long distances of pipeline are more prone to fissure, and (3) the expansive distances involved means it's more likely a slow leak would happen and no one would notice until it was too late.  (Isn't this what happened in Prudhoe Bay?)

    Would any of our resident experts care to comment on the "safety" of drilling in a very remote and very cold place as opposed to drilling in very deep water?

    "Katrina was no puddle and this is not a leak." Another American Lie

    by khowell on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 08:24:29 PM PDT

    •  It comes down to this to me: (22+ / 0-)

      Why would someone advocate so dedicatedly to something as arcane and filthy as a fossil fuel?

      I mean they must KNOW that we're EVENTUALLY going to switch to something clean, the oil will run out, and the holes will all have to be filled.

      So what is it?  A love of oil?  Nah.  A devotion to the industry?  Please, most of these people have never seen an oil rig in their lives.  What makes them so passionate about protecting the filthiest, dirtiest, most deadly, toxic thing on the entire planet?

      It represents something to them.  It represents the end of something to them.  And if Progressives are the ones that issue in the age of New Clean and Sustainable Energies, they're going to be like those people in the old black and whites from the days of the Dust bowl.  Forlorned, left behind, dismissed, an emaciated echo of a past way of life.

      Oil represents "keeping things the same forever" to them.  It is the icon in their minds.  It is the sceptor of power to them.  

      An 8th Grade History teacher that actually has the intellectual vacuum between her ears to defend filth gushing out of the ground is motivated by one thing, and one thing only.

      The out-date, terminal stench of Conservatism.

      Catholic Church: Example of Religion thats TOO BIG TO FAIL

      by Detroit Mark on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 08:32:18 PM PDT

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      •  simple - oil is like gold money to them (7+ / 0-)

        they think like this:

        that stuff is like pure gold..of course we are going to get it all first before we do anything else.

        •  But not to an 8th grade history teacher (7+ / 0-)

          I mean, I'm generalizing and only PRESUMING she doesn't have 4000 shares in Exxon Mobil.

          But I mean, the simple people who you would look at and go, well there's a community gal!

          And then she would open up her mouth and screech like the pod people in "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" and vomit out something in defense of something so horrid.

          Or gurgle up some crap about birth certificates.

          Or whisper, "listen, I know this is racist but..."

          Catholic Church: Example of Religion thats TOO BIG TO FAIL

          by Detroit Mark on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 08:37:29 PM PDT

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          •  it also matters if that occupation or (7+ / 0-)

            a related occupation has been in the family, imho.  People have a connection to the work of their grandpa or their aunt or whatever.  Even if they hate the occupation, the pride of what their family did years before overrides any rational thought on it for many.

            "NO!. You can't drive! We just got the car outta the ditch!" -- President Obama on the 2010 GOP

            by FORUS50 on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 08:42:25 PM PDT

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          •  And no (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Yasuragi, DawnN

            he doesn't have a zillion shares of anything.  He was a really good teacher, and I respected him - then - but he makes me ill now.  He's sitting 60 miles north of Gulfport, typing some screed about how "experts in their fields" should be allowed to work without government regulations in a "relatively free market".

            And as soon as I write a response, I'll be back here to the real world.

            "Katrina was no puddle and this is not a leak." Another American Lie

            by khowell on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 08:53:22 PM PDT

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      •  Because They Can Cash Out In Time (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Kimberley, Mnemosyne, khowell, DawnN

        That's why both parties so profoundly support Reagan's slashing of progressive individual taxation.

        The modern economy can reward managers and owners so much, so fast, that even national destruction is worth causing, for the security the short term rewards bring to them and their families.

        REAGAN TAUGHT US TO IMMUNIZE THEM FROM CONSEQUENCES.

        We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

        by Gooserock on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 09:16:00 PM PDT

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    •  Seems to me I've read of BP's (11+ / 0-)

      Alaskan pipes getting frozen up and rupturing recently.  I'll try to track that down.  If I'm recalling correctly, they're no better on land than they are in the ocean.  Didn't they also have a refinery in Texas blow up?  Nope. No better on land.  It's just a slightly easier problem to deal with when they screw up on land.

      My bro who is as libertarian as they come (we try to avoid discussing politics) does trust management for a living, part of which involves stock analysis.  He is absolutely livid with BP, and says that while many oil securities come up as ones worth buying, BP in the last several years has never come up.  It's poorly run and is a bad risk.  

      Defending BP is inexcusable.  In my mind it's a symptom of a mental disorder.  How can anyone have looked at what BP has done to our coast, our Gulf, divine creation, and think BP deserves defense of any kind? Who speaks for the Gulf residents?  Who speaks for the pelicans?  Who speaks for the dolphins?  They're all being ruined and smothered in oil, but BP needs defense?

      "On their backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in its becoming. Maps...of a thing which could not be put back. Not be made right again."

      by middleagedhousewife on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 09:00:48 PM PDT

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    •  I will try: (13+ / 0-)
      1.  Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (Repubs use "ANWR" to deemphasize its special qualities) is, like much of the Arctic and like La wetlands, very environmentally fragile.  
      1.  There's no point in trying to play the "spill here is worse than spill there" game.  No place is good for a spill.  They're all bad.  
      1.  Any discussion of where we should go for oil reminds me a little too much of an alcoholic discussing which bar is most likely to extend credit.

      Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be -- John Wooden/twittering RL_Miller

      by RLMiller on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 09:02:47 PM PDT

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      •  Well said, RL. Thanks for that. n/t (5+ / 0-)

        I always have a problem when people NOT named Running Bear, Kills Elk or Woman of Many Horses complain about "illegal" immigration. -- Justice Putnam

        by Yasuragi on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 09:08:32 PM PDT

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      •  My response - (5+ / 0-)

        I concur wholeheartedly that people who boycott BP to "hurt" them are poorly informed, if well-intentioned.  That's it.

        If "experts in fields" aren't wholly in the pocket of the production-oriented side of corporations they're supposed to advise, sure.  I think it would be downright amazing if petroleum engineers who don't answer to big oil were allowed to craft regulations to ensure that offshore wells must drill two relief wells that can be quickly converted to kill bores if need be - as do most of the nations drilling at these depths.  I think it would be equally astounding if the EPA and the DOJ did their damned jobs rather than being run or influenced by former extractive industry lobbyists.  If that happened, people from BP would have gone to jail for ignoring reports from employees and eventually killing 15 because of lax safety regulations in 1995, leaking close to 1 million gallons in the North Slope in the five years after that, and spilling 200,000 gallons of oil in Prudhoe Bay in 2006.

        So, no.  The idea of a "relatively free market" being able to do anything to preserve the best interests of anyone - outside of padding their bottom line -  is a canard.  I think that "BP Tony" has showed that in spades, by killing eleven men and poisoning the gulf we grew up on.

        And on ANWR?  About 400 species live, migrate, or reproduce there.  Pretending that it's okay to blow oil all over someone else's back yard is foolish and provincial.    Not to mention hypocritical.

        It's interesting to see so many people defending BP's experts in this thread... since their greed is what murdered 11 men.

        "Katrina was no puddle and this is not a leak." Another American Lie

        by khowell on Fri Jun 04, 2010 at 09:12:19 PM PDT

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