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View Diary: AR-Sen: Who cares what labor does? (216 comments)

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  •  In Defense of Whatever Dumbass Made the (10+ / 0-)

    "Flushing money down the toilet," comment there was MORE to that quote.  

    It said that money would have been better spent on house races in November.... which I suppose is debatable.  I think anyone would rather spend mone on a win than a loss.

    If whoever it was had JUST said the second part there would be less hoopla, and they're eseentially the same message.

    •  It's still an idiotic argument. (19+ / 0-)

      Unless one somehow could have known for certain in advance that Halter would lose.

      He took a duck in the face at two hundred and fifty knots.

      by jrooth on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 10:16:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm Guessing Whoever Said It (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        askew, Escamillo

        Isn't saying it was a pointless exercise merely because Halter lost, they're syaing it because it was ten million dollars spent on an intraparty struggle rather than fighting who they perceive to be the actual enemy.

        But I can't speak for whoever it was, that's just my take on it.

        •  Then again, it wasn't their decision to make (24+ / 0-)

          about how labor unions decide to put their clout and money.

          A point that seems to be lost on them, more's the pity.

          Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.

          by boadicea on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 10:21:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Really? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            askew, Dirtandiron, Escamillo

            I think they're aware that what they are expressing is an opinion.  It's all anybody does.

            If they actually thought it was their decision to make, they would have just stopped it.

            It's not easy to put yourself in someone else's shoes, but imagine whoever this person is thinking, "We ARE going to lose at least one extra house seat because we won't have that ten million dollars."  

            I think that's where they were coming from (I think the quote makes it obvious) and that's why they expressed the opinion that they expressed.

            You SERIOUSLY think whoever said that believes they can push a button and control how unions spend their money?  I don't get that.

            •  an interesting statement (20+ / 0-)

              It's not easy to put yourself in someone else's shoes, but imagine whoever this person is thinking, "We ARE going to lose at least one extra house seat because we won't have that ten million dollars."

              This is partly why labor spent that money.  Labor has been telling the dems for the past few months that they can no longer say "we" and include labor automatically.  There is a big push on now to tell the Dems that they can't take labor for granted anymore.

              Labor is going to spend money on pro-labor candidates, not where the Dem machine feels it's the most helpful to them.  The fact that someone in the administration feels that they can chide labor for not being as productive as possible to the "machine" is quite a bit more insulting than just the bare words of that statement.

            •  Tell it to the AFL-CIO (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              happymisanthropy, Dirtandiron

              Yes, I do think they believe they can dictate to the base-including labor.

              Because that is how they have been acting for over a year.

              Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.

              by boadicea on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 10:38:49 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  you don't get it, exactly do you? (8+ / 0-)

              i keep explaining this to people who wonder what the big deal is about these rude and classless comments.  

              Organized labor is a rather large democratic constituency, in case you hadn't noticed.  they have this tendency to, whaddya call it, VOTE EN MASSE.

              One reason clinton lost in 1994 is LABOR STAYED HOME.

              So: the Obama administration already pissed off labor by backing Lincoln (this is on top of a number of moves that have angered labor, like refusing to support a public option in health care). and now they are rubbing labor's nose in it. if there is one thing worse than a sore loser it's a poor winner. Rubbing labor's nose in  Lincoln's win is counterproductive. It does not heal any rifts in the party and it's base. it makes it MORE likely that union voters, who again are a LARGE portion of the Democratic base, will stay home.

              there's a big difference between "the election's over and we need to unite" and "neener neener, your guy lost so now you'd better support our guy."

              •  Stay Home for What? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Newsie8200

                What's funny is they think they're punishing "Democrats."  Like Obama is going to have a big sad face if he loses congress or something... Which I'm sure he will.  But who REALLY gets hurt, just like who REALLY got hurt in 1994 when "labor stayed home" is LABOR.  The FAMILIES that they joined a union to support.

                If your case is they haven't gotten any smarter in sixteen years, I hope you're wrong.

                But as you said, I don't exactly get it.

                Maybe it's better if their kids can't go to college.  Maybe it's better if more and more of their jobs go overseas.

                It worked so well before.

                •  your argument boils down to this (0+ / 0-)

                  "supprt the democrats because the republicans are worse. it doesn't matter whether what the democrats vote for is in the interests of their constituents, it matters that they are democrats."

                  politics isn't baseball. i realize some people are loyal to the Chicago Cubs, whose losing streak is legendary, but that doesn't apply to political parties.

        •  I disagree. (18+ / 0-)

          The way I see it, these Blue Dogs ARE the real enemy these days because they guarantee no matter how much power/seats the Democrats get, true liberal/progressive/left wing policies will NOT get passed.  It is just more of the same political game playing while people suffer and special interests profit.

          It is one thing for Republicans to win elections and regain power.  Inevitably, people will be unhappy and vote another party into power.  However, it is another issue completely when Democrats finally get into power and can't do anything, or still give Republicans whatever they want because they are these blue dog sell-outs.

          •  Especially True of the House (5+ / 0-)

            Since the House runs on a simple majority, any Democratic Representatives who consistently vote as Republicans are dead weight. Not only do they do nothing to advance Democratic Legislation, they actually make matters worse by forcing things to be waterdowned to suit them. The Blue Dogs are a smaller sized caucaus then the Progressive cacuas, yet the Blue Dogs seem to be the ones calling the shots.

            I don't believe in "Party Purity" and requireing everybody to vote in lockstep. I'm OK with people having difference with the party and having to go their own way on some issues. But when you have party members who vote with the Repubicans on nearly every issue, you have to ask why are they in the Democratic Pary.

        •  Well they they're even bigger idiots. (7+ / 0-)

          Obviously, by that reasoning Obama should never have run, since his campaign forced both Hillary and himself to expend a huge amount of money and effort that could instead have gone to important House races in the fall.

          He took a duck in the face at two hundred and fifty knots.

          by jrooth on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 10:46:08 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  You can say that (17+ / 0-)

      about the money the DSCC spent on Arlen Specter.

      Or ANY election the Democrats end up losing.

      •  You Are Correct About That (0+ / 0-)

        But for whatever reason, the DSCC perceived Specter as more electable or a better candidate.  I think they were wrong, but they don't.  And it's obvious whoever made the quote from the White House thinks the same way of Lincoln.

        •  The DSCC, like all National Party organizations (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TooFolkGR

          will always support the incumbent.

          Even if the incumbent is a recent Party switcher, by his own words, "to be re-elected".

          It's the nature of political Parties to support their members who are already seated, in favor of some new person.

          Doesn't make it a good policy, but it's logical and understandable.

      •  Specter is a special case… (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TooFolkGR, Escamillo, CoyoteMarti, laker

        …any money the DSCC spent on Specter bought his vote on health care, etc. So IMHO it was probably well spent. Win-win, we get Specter's vote today, we get Sestak tomorrow.

        Teh stoopidTM, it hurts. Buy smart, union-printed, USA-made, signs, stickers, swag for everyone: DemSign.com

        by DemSign on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 10:31:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  what does that say about our cause? (0+ / 0-)

          ...HCR isn't a valuable goal worth standing on its merits or its own two feet, that we must buy the votes to pass it-or anything? It's a sad commentary that we have to feel the need to buy any of our own so-called Dem's votes on any of our progressive goals. Does everything always have to be about the bucks? That makes us part of the problem in Washington, today, not the solution. What does that say about our goals? Our system? Or us? Is this "the real change we can believe in" we all hoped for? Seems to me: "The more things change the more they stay the same". If so, then we seem to have more than just money issues working here. We have a crisis of self-identification and self-awareness.

          "I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast, for I intend to go in harm's way." John Paul Jones

          by ImpeachKingBushII on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 10:53:14 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It says that our system is a political one… (0+ / 0-)

            …and I have no problem when politics occurs.

            Teh stoopidTM, it hurts. Buy smart, union-printed, USA-made, signs, stickers, swag for everyone: DemSign.com

            by DemSign on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 02:41:30 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  "It says that our system is a political one"... (0+ / 0-)

              ...where money talks and doing what's right for the country walks. And it seems it's a lot more politically expedient and personally profitable these days to seek the former rather than the latter. It goes to motive, opportunity, and indicates exactly where those corporate shills like Lincoln's loyalties lie.

              What's really at the root at what's driving anyone seeking public office today? Is it a genuine desire to serve the American people? Or is it merely a means to an end? True statesmen and patriots, where "America First" wasn't just a campain ad soundbyte, never had to be asked on which side of the fence they stood.

              Just look at all the prior elected reps that retired from public service and are now working for their previous corporate sponsors as paid consultants, whose job it is to ensure the corporations continue to rule the roost. It makes even the most casual observer-except for those "glass half-empty" bloggers who happily dismiss these as a business-as-usual "political occurrences", which are nothing short of "sacred cows" that we had better not slaughter no matter how hungry for change we get. Nobody in government today has clean hands, and that's my point: no one can serve TWO masters!

              Public service is a privilege, not an "all you can eat buffet" where they can engorge themselves at the public trough just long enough until they've padded their resumes(and bank accounts),and can move on to greener pastures. There's something inherently wrong with a system that stands or falls on how many of the right palms that can be greased.
              There's a word for buying votes, and it's called the same kind of corruption that led to a former Governor of Illinois' impeachment and removal from office for trying to overthrow the electoral process, selling a sitting President's former Senate seat.

              Contrary to what the "good old boys" say, there is a difference between right and wrong.

              "I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast, for I intend to go in harm's way." John Paul Jones

              by ImpeachKingBushII on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 03:41:20 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Even the Utopian automatons… (0+ / 0-)

                …that you seem to favor for elected office would still be limited by whatever programming some human gave them.

                Teh stoopidTM, it hurts. Buy smart, union-printed, USA-made, signs, stickers, swag for everyone: DemSign.com

                by DemSign on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 05:14:47 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  those "Utopian automatons" founded this nation... (0+ / 0-)

                  ...those "Utopian automatons" would probably regret ever leaving England. And sometimes, after reading the volumes of their lifetimes of words they spoke and wrote, and seeing the results that they all fell on this generation of pre-fascist corporatists deaf ears and blind eyes, I think perhaps that it were better for us had they never been born. America today is not the sum total work product they first envisioned, or is it the culmination of the revolution they dreamed of when they created this new experiment in American democracy-or when they said, "In order to form a more perfect union". Striving for perfection means never accepting second best. Accepting anything less than striving for perfection, isn't just politics, which is "doing the same things over and over again expecting a different result"--it's insane politics. Please, do write some more capsulized one-liners. "Aim small miss small".

                  "I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast, for I intend to go in harm's way." John Paul Jones

                  by ImpeachKingBushII on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 05:56:59 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  "pre-fascist corporatists"? (0+ / 0-)

                    Who writes your screeds, the CPUSA?

                    Teh stoopidTM, it hurts. Buy smart, union-printed, USA-made, signs, stickers, swag for everyone: DemSign.com

                    by DemSign on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 06:29:01 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I just pulled it out of thin air... (0+ / 0-)

                      ...57,200 links of thin air.

                      http://www.google.com/...

                      "I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast, for I intend to go in harm's way." John Paul Jones

                      by ImpeachKingBushII on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 06:59:44 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Learn how to actually do a Google search (0+ / 0-)

                        That's a whole two links not written by you. And both of those link back to a description of KIng Juan Carlos of Spain by Hugo Chavez in November 2007.

                        And quoting Hugo Chavez is no way to build credibility. Totalitarians of all stripes, communist, fascist, nazi, tailban, or Dick Cheney are reprehensible.

                        Teh stoopidTM, it hurts. Buy smart, union-printed, USA-made, signs, stickers, swag for everyone: DemSign.com

                        by DemSign on Thu Jun 10, 2010 at 07:19:06 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  lol dude you really need to lighten up... (0+ / 0-)

                          ...perhaps a return to a past comment can help you revisit happier times:
                          http://www.dailykos.com/...

                          I got a good laugh about your Lincoln human centipede reference. Our little talk's really not a life or death, do or die, earth-shattering event for me. While I thoroughly am flattered, I really do have a lot of work left(5,000 words down, 5,000 to go) on my next diary(short story) about torture and human biological experimentation today. Maybe you'll stop by and give me more google tutorials. Or maybe we can talk about centipedes. Or not. I appreciate your input and concern, though.

                          "I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast, for I intend to go in harm's way." John Paul Jones

                          by ImpeachKingBushII on Thu Jun 10, 2010 at 12:01:53 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

    •  We need to hold Obama accountable (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KingCranky, gardnerjf

      It's his White House and his staff who are saying such stupid, anti-labor, anti-progressives, keep-the-good-ole-boys in power.  He and his staff are the ones supporting those D-in-name only who are against real reform.  

      It's his staff who are doing these interviews with Politico!  

      I wrote Obama at www.whitehouse.gov last night about my disappointment with him.  I hope you will write them as well.

    •  Still completely unacceptable (0+ / 0-)

      The snivelling coward who made the remark needs to be outed and fired.

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