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View Diary: No Blacks on Jury for Oscar Grant’s Killer: Does it Matter? (80 comments)

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  •  I think your points are well taken (4+ / 0-)

    When what the public knows (from video) is that a defenseless guy is apparently shot from behind, it would server EVERYONE if the rationale of the defense were just as apparent to anyone who was paying attention.

    I haven't been following the trial, but from the video in January 2009 it seemed obvious.

    If you want to have the majority of the community think that justice is served, covering the details as well as the sensational aspect of the crime is important.

    Here in Sacramento, I haven't heard anything about the trial from the local paper (but hey, that's almost 80 miles from the scene of the crime).

    •  Things Are Always More Complex Then The Video (6+ / 0-)

      and I'm all the way in Illinois. But if I don't have a weapon in my hand and I am not giving an officer the intent I might harm them, isn't this pretty clear?

      "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

      by webranding on Thu Jul 08, 2010 at 03:57:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree completely (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tonedevil, BentLiberal

        From what I understand, Rodney King... who was absolutely beaten beyond what was necessary to restrain him... had provoked some of the initial response.  That was missing from the video.

        That's why knowing more detail would help with balance.

        I agree that this appeared to be over the top.

        •  Listen For A Beating (with King) (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tonedevil

          I got a ton of good will I'll give to police. You pull a gun and shot me. Shot me in the back. Well not so much if he didn't have a gun in his hand.

          "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

          by webranding on Thu Jul 08, 2010 at 04:08:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I saw the video of King's "provocation." (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          raincrow, happymisanthropy, sherijr

          There was NO way that it justified their response.  NONE.  And worse, when the highly-edited footage was played for the jury, it was run literally frame by frame - so that their was no risk of them seeing the full effect.

          Authentic Native American silverwork, jewelry, photography, and other art here.

          by Aji on Thu Jul 08, 2010 at 04:34:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I followed the King beating trial very closely. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Leftcenterlibertarian

            It's been a long time since the King beating, but my recollections...

            Until I saw the full video, the beating looked completely wrong.

            Upon seeing the full video, the picture was quite different. Upon seeing that, I concluded (and, much later, it turned out the appeals court agreed with me) was the last (IIRC) 12 seconds was unjustified.

            That was because King was motionless at that point, and had been for two or maybe three seconds, and didn't appear to me to be reaching for anything. At that point, although he was not following lawful orders of a police officer, he was passive and the level of force used (given the number of officers surrounding King) by resuming the beating to gain compliance wasn't justified (if they had tried to cuff him and he began to struggle again, then, resuming the beating may have been appropriate).

            Maybe if we actually made not following lawful orders of police officers a major crime, we could avoid a lot of these unfortunate situations as people understand the simple rule "do what the policeman says and argue it in court later". There are entire swaths of our population who just don't get this and everyone would be a whole lot better off if this was fixed.

            IMHO, the Grant episode was an honest, and perhaps criminally negligent, error while King's final beating (and only that one) was police malfeasance.

            It's important to remember that police officers have no obligation to have a "fair fight" with someone failing to follow lawful orders. Police have every bit as much right to go home alive and tuck their kids in as an auto worker does.

            •  No, I'm referring to the beginning. (0+ / 0-)

              I saw it, too.  In fact, I was able to see the entire video, from the beginning.  What he did that they called "resisting" was so ineffectual and irrelevant to the response that there is NO excuse for it.

              Authentic Native American silverwork, jewelry, photography, and other art here.

              by Aji on Thu Jul 08, 2010 at 06:47:38 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm curious... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Pozzo

                ...what would you want them to do (remember, this was before Tasers were in widespread use in the LAPD)? King certainly wasn't complying with lawful orders - should the police have to risk their lives to wrestle with every miscreant they come across. Or, maybe just let them go if they object too much?

                King had escalated this situation time and time again. He had shown complete disregard for police authority throughout the entire chase and as a result put his life, officers' lives, and innocent bystanders' lives at risk in the process. In this context, I believe it's reasonable to assume that the suspect will continue to be willing to do these things until he submits and is restrained. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that an irrational person willing to risk his and other peoples' lives will suddenly have a change of heart and start to play nice.

                BTW, I'm not comfortable with the earlier part of the beating, I just don't think it was illegal. I'm a big fan of Tasers in situations like this now that they are widely available (as long, of course, that the officer picks the right weapon).

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