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View Diary: I Study Homophobia (234 comments)

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  •  It's easy to see how Trans people (4+ / 0-)
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    Cedwyn, kyril, Otteray Scribe, Flying Goat

    would ask the question in less than diplomatic terms. It's certainly very common for them to be completely ignored.

    But, as Drew points out, it's also not easy to study these two issues necessarily in the same study. Science requires the isolation of individual influence factors. What influences us on issues of gender and gender-appropriate overlap for sure, but are not in perfect alignment between trans and orientation.

    Trickle down Equality isn't working

    by Scott Wooledge on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:03:25 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I'm no expert but (0+ / 0-)

      I expect that at least some of the "trans people" with wives and girlfriends aren't gay and thus it seems reasonable their issues are not something a specialist in homophobia knows much about.

      In the group of "trans people" who self identify as bisexual or gay, there appears to be a sub group of drag queens, men who don't think of themselves as women and who self identify as sissies, queers, fairy's, pansy's, fags and other such homophobic labels apparently because they don't think of themselves as a "real man" either.

      I'm wondering if that being the case there aren't some men of a different nature who are comfortable being men, still like to get in touch with their feminine side, and see purely physical appearances as irrelevant.

      Live Free or Die --- Investigate, Incarcerate

      by rktect on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 02:37:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You're sort of looking at it from the wrong angle (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        musing85, kyril, Keori, Remsicle

        Though, relative to this discussion. The discussion is a phychological test for people's emotional reaction to gays and trans. People may react to them in very different, but sometimes overlapping ways.

        Trans people may "offend" our predisposition to thinking of gender as binary and immutable.

        There may be issues of non-conformity to expected gender expression that offend people about gays. But, it likely isn't only that. Cisgendered, even hyperly conformist gays get targeted as well.

        I have often thought much homophobia and transphobia, it at it's heart, propelled by misogny. That if one works from the premise of innate, unquestioned male supermacy, both gays and trans people challenge that hierachy. Gay men by "failing" to live up to the standard, gay women by their refusal to participate in it. MTF trans by rejecting it, FTM by daring to crash the party univited.  

        Trickle down Equality isn't working

        by Scott Wooledge on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:42:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  My take on it is that gender is irrelevant (0+ / 0-)

          Men and women can live and work as equals in so many areas, maybe the real offense is that they can't get past their programming.

          Some of the differences in wages and opportunities need to go away and maybe when they do so will the issues of segregation and aparthide such as Men's rooms and Women's rooms.

          I can't see that there is much difference between making a jew wear an armband with a star of David on it, an hispanic speak English and be prepared to show them his papers, and a waitress have to wear a short skirt and a blouse with a lot of cleavage.

          For me the changes in Women's fashion that are most impressive are their inroads into the gear associated with the jobs that have been denied them for centuries. If you are trans and want a look that ought to be high on your list.

          Live Free or Die --- Investigate, Incarcerate

          by rktect on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 04:52:59 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's not irrelevant (1+ / 0-)
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            If you could just live one day as someone whose gender identity didn't match their body, you'd understand that it's not irrelevant.

            I do agree that it ought to be largely irrelevant in how people treat you, but it's not by any means irrelevant to who you are.

            Every horror committed by man begins with the lie that some man is not a man. - Jyrinx

            by kyril on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 11:15:17 AM PDT

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            •  Who you are is who you are (0+ / 0-)

              That probably includes some interests that push the boundaries of other peoples ability to put a lable on you and process you expeditiously.

              Suprisingly enough most people are like that. They have secret passions that even their significant others don't know about and if they did know would react somewhere between disinterest and horror.

              My advice would be to share their interests and then introduce them to yours as something that's maybe a little eccentric, but nowhere near as weird as their taste in _______.

              Live Free or Die --- Investigate, Incarcerate

              by rktect on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 05:57:29 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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