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View Diary: Stimulus spending: Paul Krugman was right (210 comments)

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  •  We need spending from the government on (4+ / 0-)

    things that put people to work to get capital moving thru the system. We can deficit spend, sure. But there is no reason to not tax the high earners. They won't suddenly stop earning money or spending it. They will change their habits somewhat, true. But were are we going to borrow the money to pay for the spending? China? Europe? Simply print it? We're tapped out except for the billionaires. Maybe a straight-up wealth tax, a one-time assessment for the good of the country. See how many "patriots" would go for that idea.

    Republican ideas are like sacks of manure but without the sacks.

    by ontheleftcoast on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:32:03 AM PDT

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    •  See how many billionaires (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Betty Pinson, APA Guy

      Move their money, and themselves, out of the country.

      One of the things conservatives have been facilitating for decades, little noticed by most, is the free movement of capital between nations. Seriously threaten the billionaires, and they will be gone, and so will their billions.

      In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

      by blue aardvark on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:37:58 AM PDT

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      •  Where are they going to go? (4+ / 0-)

        Seriously. I can't believe you went Galt on that one. I expected better from you in a debate.

        Republican ideas are like sacks of manure but without the sacks.

        by ontheleftcoast on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:43:11 AM PDT

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        •  Tax havens (0+ / 0-)

          Become a legal resident of Luxembourg. Or Nassau.

          Physically, you can still live in NYC. Legally, you don't. And your money is invested elsewhere - or invested in the United States, but through enough shell companies that no one can prove you own anything here.

          When you can hire a dozen full-time tax lawyers and still come out ahead - you will.

          In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

          by blue aardvark on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:02:01 AM PDT

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      •  That's much of what has happened to CA... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blue aardvark

        The affluent have grown weary of the taxes there and moved elsewhere. I know...I handled their telecom business accounts (T1, etc.) for years and did the account and services moves myself.

        It really is a catch-22...

        •  And? In CA you can choose from 49 other states. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          3goldens, cybrestrike, Betty Pinson

          If we're talking about an increase in federal taxes, where are you going to move to that's LIKE the United States, but won't tax you as much?

          Regards,
          Corporate Dog

          -----
          We didn't elect Obama to be an expedient president. We elected him to be a great one. -- Eugene Robinson

          by Corporate Dog on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:49:15 AM PDT

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        •  So reform has to come from the federal level (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Orange County Liberal

          Instead of state and local governments giving massive tax breaks to businesses to steal an ever-shrinking jobs base from other states, some form of national business and manufacturing policy is needed to stabilize the system.

          "Private health insurers always manage to stay one step ahead of the sheriff." Sen. Sherrod Brown

          by Betty Pinson on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:49:58 AM PDT

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          •  But here's the thing... (0+ / 0-)

            If deficits don't matter and deficit spending is the way out, what is the reason to increase taxes? Why not just increase spending?

            •  Deficits DO matter... (4+ / 0-)

              ... but right now, with the current state of our economy, spending matters much, much more.

              Eventually, if we ever climb our way out of this downturn, we'll then want to try to climb our way out of the deficit, and it helps if we can limit how deep we have to go.

              Regards,
              Corporate Dog

              -----
              We didn't elect Obama to be an expedient president. We elected him to be a great one. -- Eugene Robinson

              by Corporate Dog on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:03:31 AM PDT

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            •  Certainly not my opinion (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Virginia mom

              Increasing taxes on the highest income earners helps channel funds into US stimulus spending and mitigate higher deficits. Long term deficit spending is not good, but short term deficits that are targeted to high quality economic stimulus and job creation are necessary.  Part of the reason we have federal deficits is high unemployment - lower tax revenues from unemployed workers.

              Finding ways to make the business sector begin investing in economic stimulus is a win/win.  It decreases unemployment while increasing tax revenues, not to mention profits for the businesses.  Incentives don't necessarily have to be all higher taxes, but better tax incentives.  If businesses want low taxes, they need to earn them by creating US jobs.

              "Private health insurers always manage to stay one step ahead of the sheriff." Sen. Sherrod Brown

              by Betty Pinson on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:08:29 AM PDT

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      •  But sitting on their billions (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Robobagpiper

        doesn't get them anywhere in the long run.  At some point, they have to stop gambling on Wall Street and begin investing in the US economy.  Where else are they going to invest their money?

        As Robert Reich points out, US corporations and investors are sitting on huge piles of cash. If the US economy is to recover, they have to begin investing in job creation and production in order to get consumers spending again. And those jobs have to be in the US, not overseas.

        Where are the tax incentives to get businesses investing in US production and job creation? Where are the reforms that will reduce the incentives for non-productive casino investing on Wall Street?  Federal spending can help stimulate the economy, but its past time for the business sector to start doing their part.

        "Private health insurers always manage to stay one step ahead of the sheriff." Sen. Sherrod Brown

        by Betty Pinson on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:46:53 AM PDT

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