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View Diary: "Mission Accomplished" fallout (151 comments)

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  •  Re: "Mission Accomplished" fallout (3.00)
    Here's a link debunking that aspect of the conspiracy theory.  Eye witness.

    Didn't think progressive me would be linking the National Review here at dKos, but that's better than letting people just make shit up, or quote others who are making shit up.

    Better post next time, Canuck.  That's my hope.

    •  Re: "Mission Accomplished" fallout (3.00)
      You're clearly perturbed Civil Sybil. I won't even speculate why.

      Though, as noted above, it's a quote from an advertisement for the programme, and The Fifth Estate is an excellent "investigative journalism" programme. And though it may upset you, these "conspiracy theories" are out there, and held to, in whole or in part, by a good many credible people. Which doesn't make them true, of course.

      Myself, I don't particularly hold to or write off any of these "theories", but they certainly are a subject of legitimate, preferrably objective examination. It is not as if "official America" or its ruling class completely lacks a history of treachery or deception. Not by a long shot.

      Though I do understand why an American person, such as yourself, would find even a "journalistic examination" of these theories, beyond the pale and extremely upsetting. It is seldom assuring to have ones "belief system cage" rattled in this way. It might well be to a "believer" like advancing evidence that casts serious doubt on their belief in God.

      Still, it is necessary to consider ALL the evidence.

      A pleasant day to you. And there is not even a teeny-tiny bit of sarcasm in that.

      •  Re: "Mission Accomplished" fallout (none)
        Even if they are wild conspiracies, what is the harm in asking questions? I find it disturbing that there is an automatic writing off of anyone who suggests for a moment that the White House may have been involved in some way. It would be disgusting and horrific and unprecedented, but why not ask the questions?
        •  Re: "Mission Accomplished" fallout (3.66)
          Maurinsky writes, "I find it disturbing that there is an automatic writing off of anyone who suggests for a moment that the White House may have been involved in some way."

          And even from the perspective of "honouring the memory" of those persons who died on those tragic flights that day, we're it even remotely true that the White House is in some way "implicated" in their deaths, is it better and more honourable that evidence be examined or ignored?

          Were I on that flight that day, and turning in my grave to see my killers caught and brought to justice, and the White House was, in fact, implicated, I'd feel my memory better served by that being discovered rather than ignored, out of some narrow sense of wounded "national pride".

          Still, there are people who only want to hear and believe "the good", especially about their own, unsullied by crass reality and its infinitely corrupt possibilities.


        •  Re: "Mission Accomplished" fallout (3.50)
          I remember thinking, on the early afternoon of Sept 11 2001, "Oh my God, this is an authoritarian's wet dream come true." Point being that they'd use this as an excuse to unlock the toolbox of official scrutiny and oppression. I didn't know exactly how, but I bet they would.

          I also remember thinking that I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if the trail of those ultimately responsible wouldn't lead somehow back to the White House, or more accurately, to the power brokers and puppet masters behind George W. Bush.

          I'm not a conspiracy nut by any means, but it's hard to forget the Gulf of Tonkin, or Poland's alleged attack on a Nazi border outpost. Also, I'd just finished reading Jack L. Chalker's "War of Shadows", in which a biowar "terrorist" attack on the USA is engineered by precisely the type of Grand Viziers currently surrounding Bush, in order to firmly entrench the oligarchy and pretty much destroy democracy in America. The novel is science fiction, but didn't seem that far-fetched, really.

          So I'm going to watch the fifth estate tonight, with interest.

          •  Re: "Mission Accomplished" fallout (none)
            This thread is old enuf that likely no one will see my own little personal conspiracy theory:
            In a movie named Long Kiss Goodnight with Geena Davis and Samuel Jackson, she was a CIA assassin who'd lost her memory during an attempt on her life. As she's slowly recovering who she is, she gets entrenched in a set-up where they take a dead Muslim out of meat locker where they'd kept him before putting him behind the wheel of a tractor-trailer aimed at someplace scary (details don't matter - just he was supposed to look like a terrorist)
            At one point she's on the phone with the dirty CIA director and she says to him when it dawns on her what the set-up was about:" Oh, I didn't realize this was a FUNDRAISER"!
            That's the movie I remembered later in the day on 9/11, b/c I didn't think the cabal caused it, but I sure as hell believed they allowed it. As a fundraiser, as an approval ratings raiser. Because their intelligence was so lousy, I also believe they were totally unprepared for the enormity of what was going to take place.
      •  Re: "Mission Accomplished" fallout (none)
        regardless of how we feel about the "CIA & Israelis planned 9-11" canard, the fact is that its a widely accepted view in much of the world.  The Malaysian PM's anti-semetic comments (and the standing ovation they recieved) are only the most recent example.

        This enormous disparity bw western and middle-eastern worldviews is the single most important issue of our age.  Long-term peace & security depend wholly on this issue.  The more attn drawn to it, the better.

        Because lord knows the Bushes, Boykins, and PNACs of the world aren't gonna bring it up.

        •  Re: "Mission Accomplished" fallout (none)
          This enormous disparity bw western and middle-eastern worldviews is the single most important issue of our age.  

          I think I would change that just a bit to...disparity between the US and the rest of the world.

          I have read many outlandish, and not so outlandish, conspiracy theories in publications from all over the world.  Most of them point right back to the White House. I'm not saying I agree with them any more than our Canadian friend said he agreed with what is about to be aired by the Fifth Estate.  But I refuse to be closed minded with regard to this Administration.  I think most people in this country have turned a blind eye to what this cabal has done and is capable of doing.  I do not see how any thorough examination of the events leading up to, following, and on the actual day of 9/11 can do anything but keep us safer and honor those who died.

          I want to know what's in the PDB's that Bush received in the days before 9/ll and I want to know what nefarious activities the members of the Office of Special Plans were up to both before the office was formed and after.

          I have no idea what information will be revealed in the Fifth Estate's broadcast.  I do know I will be channel surfing like crazy looking for it locally, popping popcorn and opening a soda, non-diet.

      •  Re: "Mission Accomplished" fallout (none)
        CC: In re-reading all these posts, I'd say what offended me was the cavalier tone of the media quote, building up its little drama w/o respect to the dead or those who loved them.  I empathized with those folks.  My complaint to you was easily interepreted as overly broad.  That was a weakness in my posting.

        I know the US government has lied and acted treacherously in too many cases to recount.  (Canadian gov't has too, but thankfully, to a much lesser extent, imo.)

        Investigations are good.  I'd watch the show if I could.  Hype that treads on the dead isn't good.  I realize you didn't write the hype, and only quoted it -- but without caveat.

        I hope the show leaves you with confident knowledge on whether or not those people died crashing into the Pentagon.

        Lastly -- you firstly, and I following your lead, are guilty of violating Kos's rules on off-topic posting.  I hope Kos respects both of us well enough to not ban either of us!

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