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View Diary: So.. about that swine flu hysteria... (92 comments)

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  •  fostering debate (2+ / 0-)
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    Calamity Jean, earicicle

    If everyone says 2+2=4 and you say 2+2=6, you're not "fostering debate". You're just wrong.

    (And news for the self-styled moderates... when one side says 2+2=4 and the other side says 2+2=6, the correct thing to do is not to say that we should compromise at 2+2=5 and everyone should stop being so extremist.)

    Fossil fuels are the reason you can sit comfortably in air conditioning and sneer at BP.

    by Orbital Mind Control Lasers on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 08:01:34 AM PDT

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    •  well chief, you would be surprised (0+ / 0-)

      how many out there do in fact believe "2+2=6".  but let's get abstract here.  don't limit me to mere addition.

      John McCain - 894/899 of his graduating class at Annapolis.

      by sedrunsic on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 08:07:13 AM PDT

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      •  I'm not surprised (0+ / 0-)

        No, I know full well just how many people have no clue how science works and prefer intuition and prejudice to facts and clear thinking.

        That's why I think civilization is probably doomed. :(

        Fossil fuels are the reason you can sit comfortably in air conditioning and sneer at BP.

        by Orbital Mind Control Lasers on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 08:14:58 AM PDT

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        •  right. (2+ / 0-)
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          Euroliberal, smkngman

          i have thoroughly disqualified myself from the understanding of "SCIENCE" because i am in agreement with an article published today, and, appropriately, certain distinguished academics:

          "Each time the so-called experts told us that millions of people would be killed worldwide by the respective viruses. We have learned that the experts were utterly wrong," said Dr. Ulrich Keil, a professor at Germany's prestigious University of Muenster and a WHO adviser.

          link

          seriously, dispense with the hyperbole.

          John McCain - 894/899 of his graduating class at Annapolis.

          by sedrunsic on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 08:20:40 AM PDT

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          •  proof you don't understand science (4+ / 0-)

            A single dissenter isn't consensus, it's anecdote. The consensus of the epidemology scientists and doctors is that the response was appropriate.

            If you understood science, you'd understand the mistake you just made.

            Fossil fuels are the reason you can sit comfortably in air conditioning and sneer at BP.

            by Orbital Mind Control Lasers on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 08:31:08 AM PDT

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            •  deft reply - i'll give it to ya. (0+ / 0-)

              John McCain - 894/899 of his graduating class at Annapolis.

              by sedrunsic on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 08:33:28 AM PDT

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              •  not deft (2+ / 0-)
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                rockhound, earicicle

                Just right.

                Consider this... the structural arguments you used in the diary (scientists are puppets) are the EXACT SAME ARGUMENTS used by global warming deniers. The scientists are bribed or biased, the evidence isn't fully analyzed, "it's just a theory", and the ever popular "This one credentialed guy disagrees".

                Scientists aren't really motivated by either money or politics, for the most part. They're motivated by facts and pride. They want to be remembered for world-changing discoveries - or at least make them. The WHO epidemologists are motivated by pride, too... the opportunity to save literally millions of lives. That's a MUCH stronger motivation than financial corruption from drug companies.

                Fossil fuels are the reason you can sit comfortably in air conditioning and sneer at BP.

                by Orbital Mind Control Lasers on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 08:44:41 AM PDT

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            •  This isn't correct (3+ / 0-)
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              sedrunsic, smkngman, Joieau

              Even if the consensus of medical professionals say the response was correct, the DATA is what determines if it was right or wrong, not the decision makers.

              When you put opinion over fact, you destroy the scientific process.

              •  good point (1+ / 0-)
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                earicicle

                It may turn out that further analysis of the facts leads to a shift in scientific consensus. Unlikely, but maybe.

                But as a layman, I don't have access to the raw data, and I don't have the knowledge to apply it if I did. I rely on the consensus of scientific experts to guide my own decisions.

                Moreover, I'm deeply offended whenever I see people claim that the scientific consensus is the puppet of economic or political conspiracy (as this diary does). That shows a complete lack of understanding of what motivates scientists.

                Fossil fuels are the reason you can sit comfortably in air conditioning and sneer at BP.

                by Orbital Mind Control Lasers on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 08:40:27 AM PDT

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                •  or as some would point out.. (0+ / 0-)

                  a perverse fascination with the concept that humanity is doomed and our end is right around the corner.

                  John McCain - 894/899 of his graduating class at Annapolis.

                  by sedrunsic on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 08:45:21 AM PDT

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                •  It often is... (3+ / 0-)
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                  sedrunsic, smkngman, Joieau

                  this is where it really starts to get sad, but many doctors are the unknowing puppets of the medical establishment.  On my last doctor's visit I got the usual talk about salt, prostate exams, and colonoscopies despite the fact that actual data suggests salt is only troublesome to people with existing high BP, prostate cancer is not readily treatable (men who undergo extensive and invasive treatments live a few months longer than men who go untreated, and they have a constellation of bad side effects) and unless you are in a high-risk group, colon cancer is relatively rare.

                  They just transmit the information that the industry tells them to, even if that information is simply to push treatment.  In this case there is actually VERY LITTLE science in modern medicine, and mostly propaganda to sell more therapy.  It would be very valuable to have actual data on hand that isn't generated by the industry, but by real peer-review independent science.

                •  whoa, whoa (1+ / 0-)
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                  Euroliberal

                  consensus is that the threat was overstated.  i mean, isn't that exactly what the article addresses?  

                  John McCain - 894/899 of his graduating class at Annapolis.

                  by sedrunsic on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 09:03:34 AM PDT

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