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View Diary: A Key Strand in the Web of Life: PhytoPlankton (102 comments)

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  •  I'm truly worried (26+ / 0-)

    that with the extent of underwater plumes,
    the sheer volume of oil,
    and the X-factor of boatloads of Corexit,

    The Gulf Eco-system, will never recover.

    I hope the Keys, and the Atlantic,
    aren't next in the path of destruction.

    But how could they NOT be?
    Maybe if a hurricane send the gunk to somewhere else first,
    but where?

    The press is impotent when it abandons itself to falsehood. --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Seymour, 1807

    by jamess on Sat Jun 26, 2010 at 05:21:45 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Underwater plumes (12+ / 0-)

      I really would like to understand how much of their cause is the intense pressures of the reservoir versus the use of dispersant (Corexit).

      Intuitively, I believe that the Corexit may have exaccerbated the creation of underwater plumes.

      I would love to know your take on this, jamess.

      •  I think the plumes imo (12+ / 0-)

        are more the result of underwater physics,
        as it relates to the buoyancy, and fluid/gas separation,
        in the extreme ocean pressures.
        and temperature/salinity layer gradients, and the respective currents, in each ocean layer.

        Like clouds in the sky sometimes,
        they can only rise so far, before
        that run into a blocking layer of "stable air",
        and then they tend spread out sideways.

        Clouds only rise until, they reach
        their "ambient buoyancy" (ie same density as their surroundings)
        then they stop rising.
        (confounding factors:  Air gets less dense as it rises, and cooler,
        while the surrounding air has its own characteristics of temp and pressures and different level, which can changed and mix too.)

        Deep water "stratifies" much like the fluid air layers.
        Layers can either boost, or block, or ignore, other fluids,
        trying to "punch through" them


        Corexit is a wildcard in the mix.

        It no doubt effects Oil/Gas mixture's initial density,
        as it physically spread out the oil, in water,
        and effectively whips the oil, into a "light batter", often invisible.

        It seems to me that such a "froth" would be "buoyant" enough to rise to the surface. But observations are showing that these wispy clouds,
        often hang suspended well below the surface. (?)

        It could be that Corexit's secret ingredients (2-Butoxyethanol), add their own density to the frothy mixture, to halt the rising once it reaches,
        the appropriate "ceiling" in the water layers.

        There may be some "surface tension" molecule forces at work too, in the froth. Corexit is a "bridging molecule" with a Oil molecule on one end,  and a Water molecule on the other -- forcing them together, molecularly.


        Of course, this is just my takes, my hunches
        based on my plumes research,
        and course work in meteorology,
        especially with regards to the "adiabatic lapse" rate.
        (the physics of rising air)

        The press is impotent when it abandons itself to falsehood. --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Seymour, 1807

        by jamess on Sat Jun 26, 2010 at 07:31:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  alright Take 2, Typos fixed etc. (0+ / 0-)

          I think the subsurface plumes, imo,
          are more the result of underwater physics,
          as it relates to the buoyancy,
          and fluid/gas separation [making oil more dense],
          within the extreme ocean pressures [and extreme densities].

          Deep water forms various temperature/salinity gradient layers,
          and which may also have respective sideways currents.
          Ocean water "layers" tend not to mix, or stratify.

          Like clouds in the sky sometimes,
          "plumes" can only rise so far, before
          that run into a "blocking layer" of "stable air" [non mixing],
          and then it tends spread out sideways [the rising cloud does].

          Clouds only rise until, they reach
          their "ambient buoyancy" (ie. same density as their surroundings)
          then they stop rising [the pressures {densities} equalize].

          (some confounding factors:  Air gets less dense as it rises [expands], and cooler too [contracts],
          while the surrounding air has its own density characteristics
          of temp and pressures at different elevation levels,
          which can themselves change over time too.)

          Deep water "stratifies" much like the fluid air layers [forms distinct layers.]
          Those Layers can either boost, or block, or ignore, other fluids,
          trying to "punch through" them, depending of their respective densities, velocity, temps etc.


          Of course Corexit is a wildcard in the mix.

          It no doubt effects Oil/Gas mixture's initial density,
          as it physically spreads out the oil, into the water,
          and effectively "whips" the oil, into a "light batter", often invisibly thin.

          It seems to me that such a "froth" should be "buoyant" enough to rise to the surface. But observations are showing that these wispy clouds, often hang suspended well below the surface. (? indicating its found its neutral buoyancy.)

          It could be that Corexit's secret ingredients (2-Butoxyethanol), add their own density to the frothy mixture, so that the froth strands, halt their rising once they reach, the appropriate "matching ceiling" among the water layers. Where the plume will spreadout sideways, like a thundercloud anvil head.

          There may be some "surface tension" molecular forces at work too, within the froth. Corexit is a "bridging molecule", which ties a Oil molecule on one end, to and a Water molecule on the other end -- forcing them to "stick together", molecularly. despite their tendency NOT to mix.


          Of course, this is just my quick takes, my hunches
          based on my recent subsurface plumes research,
          and previous university course work in meteorology,
          especially with regards to the "adiabatic lapse" rate concepts.
          (the physics of rising air.)


          excuse my redundancy, it's been a long day.
          hopefully this Take Two explanation is clearer

          The press is impotent when it abandons itself to falsehood. --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Seymour, 1807

          by jamess on Sat Jun 26, 2010 at 09:31:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Jamess (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            elwior, jamess, BlueDragon

            Can anyone justify the use of dispersants at this point in time.
            Do you think they should be using the gulf to experiment with, (if that`s the case) or do you have reason to believe the dispersants are helping alleviate the toxicity of the oil?

            Your up-thread explanation regarding the "plumes" reminds me of the inversion layers in the air above Los Angeles, trapping in the smog.
            Am I close with that analogy?

            I`m already against the next war.

            by Knucklehead on Sat Jun 26, 2010 at 11:12:30 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  When something "quits rising" (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              BlueDragon

              it can be because of "inversion layers"
              which are usually abrupt changes in temp.

              Think of a hot air balloon, instead,
              and what they need to do to the air,
              to keep it rising. It's mostly a balancing act.
              Well the same thing with rising oil too, I think.


              Yes, I think they should have stopped all dispersants.
              or at minimum switch to less toxic variety.

              Thad Allen said that they still need subsurface dispersants,
              to protect the surface level recovery workers,
              from excessive fumes. He may have a point, there.
              So they should switch to less toxic variety.


              Dispersants, make booming and skimming extremely difficult.

              The picked a hell of a time to do this Experiment.

              The press is impotent when it abandons itself to falsehood. --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Seymour, 1807

              by jamess on Sat Jun 26, 2010 at 11:31:04 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Dispersants (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jamess, BlueDragon

                Holy jumping jesus,
                Then why don`t they supply proper safety equipment to the workers & try & save the gulf also.
                They should absolutely be using the less toxic dispersants which are available IIRC.
                Meanwhile, they`re preventing beach clean-up workers from wearing respirators.
                They shouldn`t be able to have it both ways.
                From the beginning, I always felt they were using dispersants to keep the visible surface oil to a minimum at the risk of killing the gulf.
                I so hope I`m wrong about this, otherwise, some people are not going to "heaven".

                Though your diaries are very detailed, I love learning from them.
                Thank you.

                I`m already against the next war.

                by Knucklehead on Sat Jun 26, 2010 at 11:47:35 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  thanks (0+ / 0-)

                  glad you like them.


                  and great points about issuing masks.

                  Hadn't thought about that contradiction before.

                  The press is impotent when it abandons itself to falsehood. --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Seymour, 1807

                  by jamess on Sun Jun 27, 2010 at 08:23:58 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  Worried (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elwior, jamess, BlueDragon

      I just posted the same thoughts in another open thread here.
      " jims qkw (0+ / 0-)
      Thank you for rescuing "Gulf Coast, a Dedication".
      I feel there is so much more to the devastation there than meets the eye.
      It is under the surface.
      The chemical dispersants & the"plumes" I fear are going to have long term effects, & heaven help us all if this deadly accumulation  should round Florida & enter the reefs in the keys & of the Caribbean island nations.
      I`ve been shooting images of my reefs for years & love sharing them, but never imagined doing so for this purpose.
      So again, thank you."

      I`m already against the next war.

      by Knucklehead on Sat Jun 26, 2010 at 11:02:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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