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View Diary: Afghanistan (323 comments)

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  •  There is nothing that would (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dhfsfc, blueoasis, monroematt

    ever convince you that it is true.

    •  Ah (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Wary, rainmanjr

      You know me well, and I'm just dim. That must be it.

      In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

      by blue aardvark on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 03:02:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ok-how do we win? (0+ / 0-)

        If there is no plan for an actual "win", we've lost.  And there is no plan.

        •  See below (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Wary, rainmanjr, Escamillo

          "Win" is "We leave, and the Taliban hard liners don't regain power". They could not govern effectively last time, and they won't this time. Taliban return = failed state.

          A failed state with Al Qaeda encamped just across the border should be enough to give anyone pause.

          In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

          by blue aardvark on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 03:11:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And what is going to be done (0+ / 0-)

            to be certain that some future event will not occur after the US is gone?

            •  The Taliban will not regain power (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Snud, Escamillo

              through a popular vote. So the question is a military one. If the Taliban is sufficiently weak compared to the various warlords - enough so that they can't pick up a few warlords and make a try for Kabul - then it is unlikely they will ever regain power.

              In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

              by blue aardvark on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 03:16:59 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You must have extensive (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                No Preference, blueoasis

                first hand experience in Afghanistan if you can be so absolutely certain about what will and won't happen. Who is and is not the Taliban seems to be a matter of shifting tribal allegiances. But, of course being such an expert and all you must know better.

                •  Yeah (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  rainmanjr

                  I don't know for certain. I didn't say I knew how to reach that goal.

                  I said that it is not self-evident that the contrary is true. In fact, since you are evidently defending the original statement that Afghanistan is lost, today - the burden of proof falls on you.

                  You want to talk about possibilities, let's talk. You want absolute proof, you go first. I asked for evidence that a statement is true. Do you have any?

                  In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

                  by blue aardvark on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 03:25:30 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  I lifted an interesting map from a diary (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                blueoasis

                that Unitary Moonbat did on Afghanistan. Notice how much of the country is dominated by the Pashtun tribe:

                Photobucket

                The Taliban is largely comprised of Pashtun:

                The Taliban is made up mostly Sunni Muslim Pashtuns

                We're looking more and more like General Custer at Little Big Horn to me.

                This ain't no party. This ain't no disco. This ain't no foolin' around!

                by Snud on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 03:27:45 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Pashtun also across the border (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Snud

                  Population density is not shown on the map, though. A lot of Pashtun territory is not densely populated being mountainous or desert.

                  In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

                  by blue aardvark on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 03:31:34 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  The only way the Taliban or other nutjobs... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Richard Lyon

            ...don't regain control of Afghanistan is to never leave.  Is that what you are proposing?

            Afghanistan is not a governable country.  Never has been, never will be.  At Iraq has some semblance of a civil society and public institutions.

          •  Hmm...that was in our war plan? (0+ / 0-)

            "We leave, and the Taliban hard liners don't regain power".

            I don't remember that being the marketing strategy.

            "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

            by justmy2 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 03:21:40 PM PDT

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            •  I don't recall Obama "marketing" (0+ / 0-)

              anything. He said he was sending more troops, and that they would start coming home 7/11. He was pretty careful to NOT define victory.

              In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

              by blue aardvark on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 03:22:42 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Isn't that the point that you were refuting (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                vacantlook, monroematt

                one comment up? That their was a definition of victory?

                Sorry, but I don't support crazy wars, especially ones without an exit strategy.

                In any case, the marketing strategy I was referring to was the one that was used to start this ridiculous war.

                "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

                by justmy2 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 03:26:14 PM PDT

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            •  Pres Obama isn't "marketing" anything. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              dizzydean

              He is trying to leave the country with some positives that reduce our imprint and get out.  Setting a deadline and beefing up troops for local training and safety were good calls if you want to create some positives.  That's not "marketing".  That's trying to mitigate a future problem.

              "There's really nothing I want out of the past except history." - Autoegocrat

              by rainmanjr on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 03:35:25 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  That's completely unfair. n/t (0+ / 0-)

      Oba-MA bumaye! Oba-MA bumaye!

      by fou on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 03:41:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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