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View Diary: Obama Is Going to Drop the Ball (282 comments)

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  •  See this is the sort (17+ / 0-)

    of unnecessary comment filled with personal attack that is poisoning the environment around here right now.

    Ok, so you disagree with me. Fine. I have no problems with that.

    Ok, fine, so I'm just an average commentor on DailyKos with an opinion and little ability to effect actual change. Fine. I don't claim to be more.

    But let me ask you... is it ok for me to have an opinion?

    Further... is it ok for me to express that opinion in a public venue such as this?

    If the answer to either of those question is "No" then we have a serious problem on our hands.

    If the answer to either of those question is...

    "Sure but I get to attack you and belittle you as being little more than a nameless worthless worm with a 20 secoind life span."

    Then we also have a serious problem.

    It would have been far more productive on so many different levels to have simple said...

    "I have no problems with Gibbs and disagree with you. I think he should stay."


    Andrew - Time to reboot the New York State Senate

    by Andrew C White on Fri Aug 13, 2010 at 11:43:38 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Couldn't agree with you more. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jacques, orestes1963

      So much douchebaggery here. It's toxic.

    •  I apologize for offending you. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Andrew C White, Bill W, foufou

      I don't at all understand why anyone on a Democratic blog would call for Gibbs' resignation. I do understand Grayson doing so, because he would do anything for 15 seconds on TV.

      Moreover I'm puzzled why you would do so because of campaign work Gibbs performed back in 2004.

      This diary, as I have commented on downthread, was a deliberate attempt to start a flamewar. Suspect the worst of the President...accuse him of betraying Progressives without offering him a sellout...and then bring up some dirt on Gibbs having been involved in an effort by the Gepheart and Kerry campaigns to discredit John Dean during the 2004 Iowa caucuses.

      I am no great fan of Robert Gibbs, but I do think it is inappropriate for Democrats to be calling for other Democrats to resign without being able to demonstrate that they are doing clear harm to our cause.

      The liberals always get discouraged when they do not see the measures they are interested in go through immediately. - Eleanor Roosevelt

      by OIL GUY on Fri Aug 13, 2010 at 12:52:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PhilW, OIL GUY, orestes1963

        Reasonable disagreement and discussion is always a welcome thing and I thank you.

        I think it is quite obvious that Gibbs food in mouth act has harmed our common cause. I'm not at all shocked to learn he or others in the administration have the beliefs and point of view that he expressed. It is not news that there are centrists in the Obama administration. I wasn't even all that enflamed by his comments.

        I do however consider them stupid on multiple levels. First, why publicly insult people that are yours allies even if you find them difficult and disagreeable from time to time?

        Second, why use right wing talking points in attacking your own allies? That is just bad, self defeating politics.

        Of all of it that is the part that bothers me most. He was propogating right wing manure about the left thereby strengthening the oppositions arguements and weakening the position of Democrats as a whole. Coming from the presidents press secretary, frankly any high level democratic office holders staff, is just bad, bad, bad. It was and is VERY harmful to our common cause as Democrats.

        For me, and this part admittedly involves personal feelings and not just my objective views of proper electoral strategy and tactics, Gibbs involvement in what was a particularly vile and dishonest attack on Howard (not John) Dean in the 2004 campaign is enough to put me over the edge regarding this guy. One is shows a pattern on his part. Two it really was in my opinion a vile and dishonest attack that went beyond acceptable intra-party battles because once again it propogated right wing bile using what are generally right tactics that are overall harmful to Democrats as a whole.

        I am a proud liberal Democrat and the fairly constant attacks on us get very tiring. They are particularly tiring when they come from within our own camp. I disagree with "attacks" on the President and I disagree with most of the vitriol spewed at Gibbs but I disagree even more with attempts to shut down or shout down criticism of the administration or its spokespeople or other Democrats. That is just plain wrong.

        I will be and always am completely honest about my desire for Democrats to win and hold power in American poltics. Equally I have a strong desire for liberals to win and hold power within the Democratic party and therefore within the governing majority of the country. I want Gibbs out because it is now clear to me that he is a member of a part of the Democratic party with which I have major disagreements. I also want him out because he is clearly not very good at his job and I want the President served by better... better profressionally and better ideologically.

        As for the diary, as I have stated elsewhere in the comments, I think it could have been done without... though I am very pleased to now know about Gibbs connection to that particularly vile business in 04... but it is the level of vitriol being spewed at each other within the DailyKos community that I am finding particularly distasteful and disheartening. That we disagree is healthy. That we disagree strongly and get heated at times about it is also just fine by me. But it is my sincere hope that this can be done with honesty, intelligent argumentation, and respect so that we can shake hands later and work together without hating each others guts more than the others guys... and without resorting to the sort of win at any and all costs tactics that the other guys are so well known for.


        Andrew - Time to reboot the New York State Senate

        by Andrew C White on Fri Aug 13, 2010 at 01:25:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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