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View Diary: Open thread for night owls: Van Jones (165 comments)

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  •  Somehow I missed the part about (7+ / 0-)

    our commitment. Why was that ever a question? It's not whether most of us are/were committed, it's whether the WH is...It really ticks me off when they decide to turn the tables and suggest that we are the ones off kilter and "we" really need to hunker down.

    Give me an extremely huge break!

    Language is wine upon the lips. -Virginia Woolf

    by valadon on Fri Jul 23, 2010 at 11:46:07 PM PDT

    •  Maybe his vantage point (9+ / 0-)

      is just a lil different.  Don't ascribe that small part of his speech to a bigger campaign to question the netroots commitment.  I don't think other folks felt too demoralized by that, instead they were inspired by the totality and pledge to stay vigilant.  

      And the use of 'we', to me at least, gives a much more empathetic rather than accusatory tone. Because we do need to be reminded to hunker down.  We saw the power of the forces against our hope last week in the worst way.  A lot of us needed the hope and heartbreak perspective.  I hope you can look at it in a more 'full game plan' way.

      He hasn't gone from us to 'they'.

      It really ticks me off when they decide to turn the tables

      He is us.

      •  I appreciate your gung ho spirit (0+ / 0-)

        I'm just not there. Everyone is a "we" as long as they need "us" for something.

        He's not me.

        Language is wine upon the lips. -Virginia Woolf

        by valadon on Sat Jul 24, 2010 at 03:15:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But he is though (0+ / 0-)

          and that may be the untouchable nexus - where we're not only trying to convince all poor/less privileged folks who go right that we're in it together, but we've also got work to do on the left.  

          •  The problem is (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            valadon, willibro, JordanRules

            and the bottom line is that the Congress and the White House are not acting like they're in this together with us.  We can be the most effective people in the history of the world but the fact of the matter is that if the people we elected are working against us we'll get nowhere.

            I really enjoyed Van's speech and I related to almost all of it.  But there was a really big gaping hole in it -- the hard work and ideas and hope are fruitless if the establishment is still working against you, if you have not been effective in influencing them.  And Van himself is the prime example of that.  And that's the very sad irony of his speech.

            But yeah, we keep trying.  What other choice do we have?  

            I just hope Van is using his connections to try to get through to the administration, and not just trying to influence the blogosphere.  Because his efforts would be much better spent in trying to get them to listen to the people who elected them instead of listening to the Rubinite advisors who already took us down the road to hell before in the 90s.

            •  I agree (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Terri, willibro, Paddy999

              and I don't think anything about this dynamic is new and yet we still have to keep pushing forward.

              This isn't the first time the powerful have aligned against the masses, it would be news if it was.  Do I think they have a new tool in their shed? Yep, the President of the USA is Black.  But my main point is to keep working because 20 and 50 years from now if their tactics didn't work to demoralize us, we will understand the changes better.  

            •  Exactly (0+ / 0-)

              and the bottom line is that the Congress and the White House are not acting like they're in this together with us.  We can be the most effective people in the history of the world but the fact of the matter is that if the people we elected are working against us we'll get nowhere.

              Language is wine upon the lips. -Virginia Woolf

              by valadon on Sat Jul 24, 2010 at 03:31:51 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Last week (6+ / 0-)

        We saw the power of the forces against our hope last week in the worst way.

        I couldn't disagree more.  

        There is another way to look at this.  

        I saw a great victory last week.  Breitbart's attack was effective for a very, very short time.  And then the blogosphere pushed back and the media pushed back.  And this happened really quickly.

        The media started defending Ms. Sherrod.  They took the time to get the full video and they played it over and over and over, in context, and pundit after pundit took the time to explain what she was saying, in context and to show that her message was the exact opposite of how Breitbart painted it.  They went out and found the farmer and interviewed him.  They gave Sherrod tons of time to present her side of the story.  They bent over backwards to make sure this was reported accourately.  I'm talking about the tv media - real media, not Fox News.

        The pressure from the media and the blogs was on the Dept of Ag and the White House to treat her right and to reinstate her,

        This was a sign of real progress.  This gave me hope instead of taking it away.

        This would have played a lot differently a few years ago, I believe strongly.

        •  I am very heartened (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          willibro, brein, StepLeftStepForward

          that you feel this way and maybe I've been burned too many times thinking we've turned the corner.  I think they will find another target and that person may not be as angelic as Ms. Sherrrod; then what?

          A few years ago we had Rev Wright, less than a couple years ago we had Acorn, and then there was the topic of this thread Van Jones; I see no fundamental change and that's what it will take IMO; codified change via law, regulation, cultural expectations etc.

          Most of my friends hadn't heard the updates on the story.  And most of the viewers Fox was targeting with the original story (CNN viewers too) would never believe the correction anyway.  IMO their logic might read like this (given the previous lies Beck, Fox, Rush etc have fed them) - "well they're racist too, of course they would stick up for her". Seriously, that's the level of discourse I think we're dealing with given Fox and right wing radio's MO.

          •  If it happens again (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            StepLeftStepForward

            it will have to be dealt with on a case by case basis.  And I'm willing to bet that the media will treat it a whole lot differently next time and they'll do their homework before jumping on a story like that, as will the NAACP.

            We'll have to disagree on Rev. Wright.  I still find the things he said to be offensive.  Really offensive.  Then he just kept digging and tried to destroy then candidate Obama.  Wright has some serious issues.  That wasn't the same as the situation with Ms. Sherrod.  Not even close.

        •  And I think I forgot the most important point (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          willibro, brein, StepLeftStepForward

          ...the fact that it was allowed to happen in the first place.

          News outlets are supposed to fact check.  It should have never, ever, ever happend. I learned this in high school journalism. There is no excuse for what Breibart and Fox did IMO.

          •  No doubt (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            valadon, willibro, Paddy999, brein

            there's no excuse for what Breitbart and Fox did.  Breitbart is done, as far as the mainstream media is concerned, IMHO.  They'll never entertain anything the man says or does ever again.  He ruined his career, IMHO, except for opposition research type work or right-wing nut job radio.

            You'd think it would have happened after the ACORN affair, but that played out in slow motion and it wasn't corrected immediately like the Sherrod situation was.  Plus, his name and face wasn't as prominent in that case.  This time, his name and face was part of the story.

    •  Interesting discussion, you guys (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      valadon

      Thanks for having it.

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