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View Diary: Is reverse racism legit? Is it racism against racist? Or against White People? (142 comments)

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  •  There is a difference (0+ / 0-)

    between overt and deliberate racial preferences sanctioned by law and the de facto discrimination that is not. It's probably true that most white people do not see or recognize the second kind, since it is not in plain view.

    I raised some ways in which these types of programs could be considered by reasonable people to be inconsistent with our ideas of fairness and equality under the law. You came back with some ugly assumptions about the character and motives of the people who oppose them, and about white people in general, and although I didn't understand your point about what I might have said to my neighbor, about me.

    I will reiterate my basic point. The people who oppose affirmative action programs don't have to be bigoted, hypocritical, evil or psychopathic. A lot of them are liberal Democrats, and a lot are potential Democrats. Assuming the worst about people is not a good thing.

    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. --Bertrand Russell

    by denise b on Fri Jul 30, 2010 at 12:41:52 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  And I reiterate (0+ / 0-)

      that "fairness and equality under the law", though mandated by the equal protection clause of the constitution, is a myth.

      The "overt and deliberate racial preferences sanctioned by law" that were beneficial to whites at the expense of all other ethnic groups has been turned into dog whistles and other forms of less overtly hostile forms of discrimination only because the law has made the former kinds technically illegal.

      But we cannot legislate mindsets and attitudes... so it is still harder for me to get a job, get a promotion, get a home etc than it is for someone who is white, all other things being equal. When I shop I am followed (because people who look like me steal) when I drive to the grocery store I am more prone to being stopped (because people who look like me don't deserve to live in the neighborhood I live in or drive the car I drive) and the reason you don't see this is because you are not targeted by it.

      And while on a purely hypothetical level you say that these things are unfair... you push back against any efforts to correct that unfairness... because to you, such would be unfair to the ones who have propagated unfairness and prospered beyond measure by their ability to limit any erosion of that unfairness...

      That is where the hypocrisy lies...because just declaring the playing field to be level will not remedy 400 years of it's having been overtly not level... and in every conceivable metric compared to whites in America, non-whites, despite having things in large part better than they ever have, are losing ground... and your response to this is to complain that policies are in place that attempt to slow this decline are unfair to you as a white person and therefore should not be?

      •  You obviously misunderstand me (0+ / 0-)

        because I don't disagree with most of what you say and I never said any of these policies are unfair to me as a white person. I don't think I even said I was white. You are the one who is reading things in that aren't there. I am very well aware of what you face. I also haven't said if I oppose racial preferences or not. In fact I don't on the whole. But I support them with misgivings because treating people as individuals is something important to me.

        Where I differ from you is in not attributing base motives or character traits in all people who see this issue differently. On this and many other issues I think reasonable people can and do disagree. I know they are not all racists or hypocrites or morally deficient. Many of them are political allies and many are potentially allies.  

        The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. --Bertrand Russell

        by denise b on Fri Jul 30, 2010 at 08:56:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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