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  •  Which Mayflower people? (2+ / 0-)
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    Mnemosyne, swampyankee

    I am descended from Mayflower people (Doty, Sherman), and related to the first Gov of Mayflower colony (his nephew is my direct ancestor), so I'm familiar with the passenger list.

    The only ones I've heard about are the Irish line from which Obama descends and his Kenyan father.  I've never read he had Mayflower ancestors.

    They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich

    by NonnyO on Sat Jul 31, 2010 at 02:31:51 AM PDT

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    •  Just checked, (1+ / 0-)
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      NonnyO

      and I had the wrong boat. His folks were on the Speedwell. As you know, that boat had to turn back, and this story says his ancestors came over from Leiden later, on another Mayflower.

      I hadn't seen this article before, and it answers a question that's bothered me. There was much bally-hoo about how Dubya Dude was a Mayflower descendant, and I've been worried that we might be very distant cousins. We are not, I am happy to say. My Mayflower people are much more chic than his. :-)

      Dubya is descended from one John Howland, who was servant to John Carver, ancester of a lifelong friend of mine. And was nearly swept overboard by rough seas during the crossing. Too bad. It would have saved us a lot of grief.

      If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.--A Boston cabbie, to Gloria Steinem, in the 1970s

      by Mnemosyne on Sat Jul 31, 2010 at 09:23:29 AM PDT

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      •  You're right about Howland... (1+ / 0-)
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        Mnemosyne

        Anything that would have saved the world from being inflicted with Dumbya, that poor excuse of a "human being."  Failing that, I wish his mother had miscarried the pregnancy that resulted in his birth.  (Gawd, no one knows just how much I'd like to see trials for perjury and war crimes that would put Dumbya and Dickie in jail for the rest of their unnatural psychopathic lives!)

        Gov. John Carver was the uncle of Robert Carver, my direct ancestor via John's brother, Isaac, who stayed in Leiden.  John never had any descendants (by either of his wives.)  He and Katherine White Legatt (2nd wife) apparently had one child (two, depending on sources) who died or was stillborn in Holland, but no other children, so no one descends from John.  He and his wife died the spring following the arrival of the Mayflower (the first voyage, as you noted).
        http://www.mayflowerhistory.com/...
        (Everyone knows about Wm. Bradford because he was the second gov. of the colony, held the position for many years, and wrote a lot, but I don't remember any history books mentioning John Carver.  Details, details.)

        Edward Doty of the Mayflower (and my direct ancestor) was a litigious and fractious individual, it seems.  He was involved in the first duel in the new colony.  He married Faith Clarke.  Their daughter, Desiré Doty, married William Sherman who, when he was off fighting in King Philip's War (something not covered in American History classes when I was in school), returned home suffering from PTSD..., but the genealogy & history books say he suffered from 'bouts of temporary insanity' from time to time.  They had six children.  It was probably lucky William died young.  Desiré then married a fellow named Holmes and had two more children.  Widowed for a secnd time, Desire married Alexander Standish, son of Miles Standish, and had more children.  Desiré outlived all three husbands.
        http://books.google.com/...

        Alexander Standish's fist wife had been Sarah Alden, daughter of John Alden and Priscilla Mullins (Longfellow, the poet who wrote of their romance, was a descendant).  Alexander and Sarah's eldest son, another Miles, married Experience Sherman, daughter of his step-mother by her first husband.  (John and Priscilla's son, another John Alden, was accused of witchcraft in Salem, MA.  He escaped and lived....)  It was rather fun putting the Mullins info in my database as step-in-laws of my ancestors... their home town was Dorking, Surrey, England.  So, okay.  The name Dorking made me laugh, and it's the name of a real town; there is a landmark sign in front of the shoe shop William Mullins owned in Dorking.  The Brits do have some delightful old names, and no matter where on the island it is, the names are an etymologist's wet dream.

        Whew... yes, keeping these relationships straight is sometimes exhausting!  There was a kind of genetic bottleneck for lack of a large population, so the descendants of the early colonists are often related several ways.

        To confuse the issue, besides this William Sherman (and Desiré Doty) line which is in my maternal genealogy, there is yet another, apparently unrelated Sherman line in my paternal genealogy in Rhode Island.  All seem to have been from Essex, England, but apparently not related.  Well, the ones in RI are because my RI Sherman ancestor had brothers who came to the US, too.

        Besides my direct ancestors, the in-laws and step-relatives all figure among the prominent names one hears about in history books of Mayflower ancestors and the colonists who arrived during the next ten or fifteen years, and if I'm not directly descended, they are related by marriage to siblings of my direct ancestors or as second or third spouses.

        In any case, the real history of these people is much more interesting than novels.  If I had known my genealogy when I was in grade school and high school, all those dry and boring details we had to memorize for no apparent reason would have been much more interesting if I had known the roles my ancestors played in colonial America.

        [:-(  Actually, there is one name in my ancestral lineage that might, just might, be connected to Dumbya's ancestors via his mother's line.  I refuse to do the research to find out for sure because I prefer to think I couldn't be even remotely related to that piece of shite.]

        They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich

        by NonnyO on Sat Jul 31, 2010 at 05:10:03 PM PDT

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        •  one part of King Philip's War (1+ / 0-)
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          NonnyO

          was fought in the town where I grew up. I know a lot about it. And I remember when I first found out why the geographic spot called Sachem's Head is so named.

          I'm from Resolved White, older brother of Peregrine, first child born after they landed. Actually, while they anchored in Cape Cod Bay, but who's counting.

          Several other Pilgrims, including the man who financed the next boat. Plus, later, several witches. Good times.

          If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.--A Boston cabbie, to Gloria Steinem, in the 1970s

          by Mnemosyne on Sat Jul 31, 2010 at 07:09:18 PM PDT

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          •  Interesting! :-) (0+ / 0-)

            Yes, Peregrine was born in the harbor.  I've always thought that was one of the more interesting events of the voyage.

            You might be interested to know that another Peregrine White (altho I don't know what generation or how related) was the scribe for the will of my Loyalist ancestor in Kings County, New Brunswick on 14 May 1798.  Right after I got my first computer and connected to the internet in '01, I was the one who found and obtained a microfilm copy of the will (and two deeds with a very long list of names, both deeds run many pages) when the genealogist who published the Carver family history didn't find it before he published the book in 1938.  He knew they were proscribed and banished, but had no death date info.  I still don't have a death date, but it had to be after the will was written.

            Because of the unusual first name, I've assumed the Peregrine who wrote and witnessed my ancestor's will was somehow related to the Peregrine White who was born in Cape Cod harbor.

            They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich

            by NonnyO on Sat Jul 31, 2010 at 11:09:00 PM PDT

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          •  Oh, and PS (0+ / 0-)

            Two of my RI ancestors were in the battle at "the great swamp" (wherever that was; there's a picture online) during King Philip's War.  My direct ancestor was killed by the Wampanoags.  His youngest son had gone to live with the Wampanoags some 15 years before that, married one of their women, and had one son by her.  For allegedly shooting at the colonists, he was arrested, tried and convicted of treason... all while his father was out looking for him and being killed.  Instead of confiscating the land of the youngest son, it seems the colonists had second thoughts about how they killed him for treason and bent over backwards for his young son because he was not disinherited from his father's land.

            The eldest son was my direct ancestor.  I don't know if he was ever involved in that war or not, but he lived to adulthood, raised a family, and his daughter was the second wife of a man whose first wife had been murdered by one of his slaves.

            The first president of RI in the 1600s was also my direct ancestor, as well as a few of the other presidents/governors before the US became a nation.

            Yeah.  Like you, I'm sure, I also have a few interesting ancestors.

            :-)

            They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich

            by NonnyO on Sat Jul 31, 2010 at 11:52:28 PM PDT

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