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View Diary: Unions 101 - Which Side Are You On? (130 comments)

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  •  Where are you listening, precisely? (22+ / 0-)

    Because I've never heard anything of the like you're talking about. At all.

    •  Can't give you specifics, (0+ / 0-)

      but the fact that I am saying this supports my comment about the PR machine.  I never heard that unions were working for anyone who wasn't union, and I'm pretty politically active, have spent a lot of time talking to union guys, doing organizing things, including with unions.  They're all about the union and anyone else can suck it.   At least, that's the message I got. If it's wrong, that's great, but there is still obviously a messaging problem.

      "I can't go to sleep. Someone on the internet is wrong!"

      by DrJeremy on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 11:59:34 PM PDT

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      •  Alright. (8+ / 0-)

        If that's been your experience, I'm quite sorry and more than a bit shocked.

        I live in an extremely worker (and thus, Union) hostile state. And every interaction I've ever had with union supporters has been extremely positive, and even apologetic that inroads haven't been made very deep into these ass-backward jurisdictions.

        •  Oh, they're great guys, but they feel that (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CS in AZ

          there should be a two-tier system of labor - union workers should be treated well, and non-union can go suck it.  The attitude is that if non-union workers want to be treated with basic rights and dignity, they should unionize, and if they don't do that, then oh well for them.  Like I said, it's a PR issue, because that is what I have seen, not saying it's accurate, but that is how it comes across.  My problem with unions is that it gives the government an out to not treat all workers properly, and the unions seem to be down with that, because of money and such as.

          "I can't go to sleep. Someone on the internet is wrong!"

          by DrJeremy on Tue Aug 03, 2010 at 12:10:09 AM PDT

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      •  That's not the union folks I know (6+ / 0-)

        Keep in mind that the laws on the books that do exist for the protection of all workers - and, yes, they could be better - came about in part because workers and unions agitated for them.

        I think every worker is entitled to protections, both from statues that cover everyone and from collective bargaining.

        Procrastination: Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always pays off now.

        by Linnaeus on Tue Aug 03, 2010 at 12:44:09 AM PDT

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        •  I totally get that, (0+ / 0-)

          but I think that unions give the government an out.  All workers should be protected, not just unionized ones.

          "I can't go to sleep. Someone on the internet is wrong!"

          by DrJeremy on Tue Aug 03, 2010 at 12:46:23 AM PDT

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          •  What you're describing is a guild, not a union. (8+ / 0-)

            Unions have a natural inclination to work for the workers in their industry, not for their members. (If they achieved benefits only for their members, they rise the incentives to de-unionize for the owners/ employers, i.e. making it harder for themselves in te long run. Not smart.)  

            Of course, in a generally union-hostile society as the USA (as opposed to the Northern and Western European countries) unions have to beware of too many 'freeriders' - they have to have a minimum membership to stay operational and be able to exert some influence (e.g. for calling a strike)

            Therefore, they continuously urge working people to become unionized - you really don't expect them to go out and say: "Please, do nothing, don't risk anything, we'll do the fighting for ya!" Still, they understand that some workers have it harder than others to organize (Wal-Mart et al) - and they practice solidarity with these workers by fighting for a Public Option, just to name a recent example, or have you forgotten the huge rallies the unions held in support of the measure?

            "The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx, Theses on Feuerbach XI

            by aufklaerer on Tue Aug 03, 2010 at 01:18:13 AM PDT

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        •  yep (6+ / 0-)

          8 hour day, lunch breaks, anything to do with job safety.  If you have it, thank a union.

          If you think you're too small to be effective, you've never been in the dark with a mosquito.

          by marykk on Tue Aug 03, 2010 at 04:21:54 AM PDT

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