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View Diary: Protecting Social Security: Let's Tell The Deficit Commission Not to Slash Entitlements (261 comments)

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  •  Uhh... (12+ / 0-)

    not to dampen your enthusiasm.
    Given the fact that I´m not an American citizen and that I don´t live in the USA.

    But isn´t that the same thing the progressive caucus promised you regarding the public option?
    They would fight for it because it was supported by a majority of Americans?
    And then they surrendered when pressured by the White House?

    Maybe you should make your support conditional?
    You´ll support them when they fight back? And you´ll support them even more enthusiastically once they win a fight?

    •  So we should all just rock in our (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RickD, allep10

      rocking chairs, and munch our Dorritos, and suck our thumbs, is your point?

      Sounds like a strategy to me.

      (Schlurp, schlurp, schlurp, schlurp...)

      •  Axtually no. (12+ / 0-)

        I´m simply saying that depending on the progressive caucus might be a bad idea.

        After all, the progressive caucus is known to surrender to pressure from the White House every time.

        Instead of cheering on Raul Grijalva for writing a DKos diary, you might cheer him on for "actions".

        Kind of like "not was he says now, but how he acts later".
        It´s just common sense (outside the USA).

        •  Fair enough. n/t (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gmb
        •  Yup (6+ / 0-)

          my thoughts exactly. 85% of the Democratic base were wildly enthusiastic about the public option, millions of phone calls and letters sent in support by naive and eager PO supporters  refusing to come to grips with the reality of Obama's real intentions; that once he cut his backroom deals, he was hellbent on killing it, screw what the American people wanted.

          And the "progressive" caucus caved like the pathetic whimps they are. And now...more  "words" signifying nothing and the endlessly abused, endlessly trusting "base" open their hearts up yet again in the timeless Democratic ritual of getting them ground into little broken pieces by the DLC.

          Btw, starting from a position of preserving SS is defensive and wimpy, true to form for the Democratic Party; we should be demanding STRENGTENING - raising the measly payment amounts and lowering the retirement age to conform to what the rest of the civilized world demands and expects.

          Don't let the awful be the enemy of the horrifically bad.

          by virtual0 on Thu Aug 12, 2010 at 07:51:19 PM PDT

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        •  Let's do both (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          karmsy, barkingcat

          show our support now, and press for a strong stand.  We have few enough representatives looking out for working America...I imagine they need all the encouragement they can get.

          On the other hand, I hope that the progressive caucus knows what a powder keg they're sitting on now.  Capitulation on this issue will push a lot of progressives over the edge and out of the party.

    •  Uncap Social Security payroll deductions (15+ / 0-)

      Where do they stop now 90-100,000? Take off the cap and let the higher earners continue to pay their share.

      I don't know what the revenue projection would be but I would guess one trillion easily over ten years, maybe several trillions.

      "He not busy being born is busy dying." R. Zimmerman

      by RUKind on Thu Aug 12, 2010 at 05:03:39 PM PDT

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      •  But how does that help? (0+ / 0-)

        Withdrawals are proportionate to contributions.

        Won't that just mean we put in more money and later need to take out more money?

        Or are you suggesting that we make high earners pay Social Security on their full income but only give them benefits based on the current cap?

      •  People should be encouraged to horde their wealth (0+ / 0-)

        against the rabble that is bound to lay siege to their fortresses when conditions become unbearable.  

        Taxing the rich only makes sense if you're not rich or if you're sponging off the rich.  Let's get that straight.

        "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you can succeed." -Nancy Pelosi, 6/29/07.

        by nailbender on Thu Aug 12, 2010 at 08:53:48 PM PDT

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        •  *not* sponging. (0+ / 0-)

          Sponging always gets me flustered.

          "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you can succeed." -Nancy Pelosi, 6/29/07.

          by nailbender on Thu Aug 12, 2010 at 08:54:52 PM PDT

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        •  The rich would not be rich (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          aufklaerer, scarysota63

          without all the people who help make them rich, including especially the people who work for them.  Since most of the rich folks will pay the workers as little as they can, while at the same time charging as much as they can for whatever good or service gets produced, the only way to bring some fairness into the system is to tax the rich.

          I understand the economics of paying little and charging much, but there's nothing fair about it, and it won't keep a society going.

          •  childish thinking (0+ / 0-)

            This isn't 1912.

            In the information age, plenty of people have become rich without help from laborers -- look at the guy who created Hotmail or Facebook or the guys who created Google or Yahoo.

            In the 21st century, labor is irrelevant -- knowledge, ideas, and information are the sources of profit.

            eBay has this massive global presence and only a handful (of very well paid) workers.

            In the information age, you can make millions with a clever idea and a few servers in your dorm room.

            Exploiting labor is no longer required.

            •  who makes all the computers they rely on? (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Mgleaf, aufklaerer, JesseCW, CKendall

              Well paid Chinese mandarins?

              "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you can succeed." -Nancy Pelosi, 6/29/07.

              by nailbender on Thu Aug 12, 2010 at 11:57:16 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Read a book. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JesseCW, CKendall

              Any book about economics
              ...
              and you will be embarassed by what you just wrote.

              You seem to have no idea how the current incarnation of capitalist economy works. The DLC and the Republican party and all other neoclassical ideologists repeat this meme, that exploitation is over, that capitalism is fair now, that there are no workers any more, just entrepreneurs etc.

              It has nothing to do with reality. Please, read up.

              "The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx, Theses on Feuerbach XI

              by aufklaerer on Fri Aug 13, 2010 at 12:43:37 AM PDT

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      •  Payback is based on contributions (0+ / 0-)

        so, by uncapping the contributions, we would be creating a situation where some people could get $600 checks each month and others $600,000 checks.

    •  big difference (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CKendall

      It's a lot easier to prevent new legislation from happening than to pass new legislation.

      So it should be a lot easier for progressives in Congress to prevent cuts to Social Security than it was to get a public option in the health care reform.

      For example, blocking any changes would only require action in the House and not both chambers of Congress.  

      Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room.

      by RickD on Thu Aug 12, 2010 at 10:18:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's going to be tied to the Bush (0+ / 0-)

        tax cuts.

        The Grand Plan is to ditch the Progressive Caucus and pick up 50-60 Republican votes.

        The only real hope is that the Republicans won't play along.

        We need to stop going halfway around the world to wage war on people who don't even change out of their jammies to fight us.

        by JesseCW on Fri Aug 13, 2010 at 01:38:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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