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View Diary: Atheist Digest '10: Debunking Dogmas, Part I: Creationism (211 comments)

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  •  What is the difference between a political belief (2+ / 0-)
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    Rieux, wilderness voice

    and a "spiritual" (goalpost moving noted), read "religious" belief?

    Why do you not make the same argument about whether someone thinks we should go to war, or pass a health care bill?

    Are you sure, in your heart, that your real concern is for the delicate sensibilities of others who may be somehow harmed if they are exposed to an intellectual discussion about religious beliefs, and that this is somehow fundamentally different than any other intellectual discussion about other beliefs?

    Why the double standard? What makes religious belief different?

    Always make new mistakes - Esther Dyson

    by RandomActsOfReason on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 04:14:55 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  A great deal and if you can't see that (0+ / 0-)

      then you are going to have problems. There are plenty of arguments for healthcare and ending the war that never touch on religion. There are no intellectual discussions about religion here it is an exercise in making people wrong for what they believe. That gets no one any where and certainly doesn't move the human race forward. Eventually humans will evolve past the need for myth and magic.

      •  "A great deal" is evasion, not an answer (2+ / 0-)
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        Rieux, wilderness voice

        What is the difference between debating a political belief and a religious belief?

        Certainly people are quite passionate about their political beliefs. Certainly there has been no shortage of hostility, intolerance, misunderstanding and artificial polarization here on issues like the health care debate.

        Yet you not only have no problem with that, you actively participate in such debates.

        Why then, do you single out religion and seek to exempt it from exactly the same kind of rational scrutiny and discussion that you seem to welcome on all other topics?

        And why do you avoid actually answering these questions, rather than simply asserting and attacking those who question your assertions?

        The person doing the most aggressive attacking here, among all atheists and theists who have participated in this diary, is you.

        Always make new mistakes - Esther Dyson

        by RandomActsOfReason on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 08:14:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Because religious beliefs are none of your (0+ / 0-)

          business what is so freaking hard to understand about that? I deal with all kinds of people everyday, trying to solve problems, serious social problems. I don't give a fat rats ass if they go to church or not, I just don't care because those beliefs or non beleifs have nothing what so ever to do with solving the problem.

          •  Your reaction is quite hard to understand (3+ / 0-)
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            Rieux, wilderness voice, XNeeOhCon

            Who has asked you to do anything, let alone engage the people you deal with every day in religious discussions?

            You came in to this diary, proactively, preaching that we should not engage in the discussion we are engaging in.

            You are the one who characterizes any discussion about the existence of god - or even a challenge to Creationism - as an "attack on people".

            Why are religious beliefs none of my business, while political beliefs are your business?

            beliefs or non beleifs have nothing what so ever to do with solving the problem.

            Religious beliefs underlie many if not most of the problems we deal with here on Daily Kos.

            Opposition to a woman's right to choose, to same-sex marriage, to stem-cell research, to separation of church and state, to science-based medicine, to welfare - all these have a basis in religious and "spiritual" beliefs.

            Every other political problem we have is the result of differing beliefs of one kind or another.

            Beliefs have everything to do with solving problems, because it is different beliefs that dictate different approaches to policymaking. In particular, religious and "spiritual" beliefs, as well as dogmatic, irrational ideological beliefs, tend to get in the way of empirical, rational, results-oriented policymaking and implementation and governance.

            You have yet to explain why religious beliefs are any different than other beliefs.

            Always make new mistakes - Esther Dyson

            by RandomActsOfReason on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 08:31:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  go back and read the diary (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Rieux

        There are no intellectual discussions about religion here

        Creationism was shown to be a non-starter on its own terms. Self contradictory.

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