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  •  Welcome back. I see the de rigueur ... (12+ / 0-)

    ...assault on Amory Lovins, but where is the support for 6000 nuclear energy plants?

    Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 07:41:44 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Where is the funding / skilled workers , (0+ / 0-)

      for even 500 plants ?

      "He who owns little is little owned." HDT

      by indycam on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 07:54:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Um, um, um, in India and China maybe. (0+ / 0-)

        Just because nuclear ignorance is popular here doesn't imply that there isn't plenty of nuclear infrastructure elsewhere.

        China currently has under construction 24 nuclear plants, for instance.

        There are 57 nuclear reactors now under construction on this planet.

        It's more than passingly parochial to assume that nuclear ignorance extends worldwide.

        It doesn't.

        We live in the intellectual provinces here, where nuclear science is despised by people who don't know any.

        •  So your plan is to have China and India (0+ / 0-)

          provide the funding and skilled workers for nuke plants worldwide ?
          If nukes are the answer , they have to be adopted worldwide . A few countries switching over to 100% nuke will not solve the bigger problem and China building a few more nuke plants isn't going to stop them from their coal habit .
           

          (They are also building DME plants in China that are now supplying Japan.)

          Coal to DME does not sound so hot to me .

          http://en.wikipedia.org/...

          In 2009 a team of university students from Denmark won the Urban Concept/Internal Combustion class at the European Shell Eco Marathon (The Shell Eco Marathon is an unofficial World Championship for mileage) with a vehicle running on 100% DME. The vehicle drove 589 km/liter, fuel equivalent to gasoline with a 50 ccm 2-stroke engine operating by the Diesel principle. As well as winning they beat the old standing record of 306 km/liter, set by the same team in 2007

          http://www.dailykos.com/...

          Go ahead shithead.

          What a miserable mindless fuck.

          I am certainly not the only diariest[sic] or commentator on this website who finds you appalling.

          You are ignorance reified[sic].

          airhead, with due contempt,

          Everything I see dribble out of your keyboard, in fact, lowers my opinion of you.   Just when I feel I couldn't think less of you, you pipe in again.

          •  And your point is, what exactly? (0+ / 0-)

            That India and Chinese nuclear scientists are really interested in what bourgeois Americans think?

            I don't think so.

            They don't log on to this website before doing science or making business decisions or environmental decisions.

            The Chinese balance of payments, by the way, is about half a trillion dollars a year in the black.  That didn't happen because the Chinese are provincials.   On the contrary, most of the Chinese that I know personally - and I know a great many - are world class scientists.

            China is not a backwater provincial country with a viceral faith based cultural hatred of science like, um, some countries I know.

            What are the Chinese doing with the money from their balance of payments?   One thing is that they're building nuclear plants, 24 of them now being under construction.

            Those plants are likely to operate until the 22nd century approaches - some probably into the 22nd century - meaning that in China, the lights will be on, should humanity survive ignorance, not necessarily a good bet.

            As it happens, the President of the United States, trying to reverse a long term trend of contempt for science here, holds a rather positive view of nuclear energy which is reflected, I think, by the fact that he appointed a scientist to be Secretary of Energy.

            Quoth he, a few weeks ago,

            Because of you, we’ve been able to get a lot done over the last 20 months.  Together, we’re jumpstarting a new American clean energy industry -- an industry with the potential to generate perhaps millions of jobs building wind turbines and solar panels, and manufacturing the batteries for the cars of the future, building nuclear plants, developing clean coal technology.  There are other countries that are fighting for those jobs, in China and India and in Germany and other parts of Europe.  But the United States doesn’t play for second place.  As long as I’m President, I’m going to keep fighting night and day to make sure that we win those jobs, that those are jobs that are created right here in the United States of America and that your members are put to work.  (Applause.)

            Remarks by the President to the AFL-CIO Executive Council

            Quoth the Secretary of Energy in the current administration:

            "Nuclear energy provides clean, safe, reliable power and has an important role to play as we build a low-carbon future.  The Administration is committed to promoting nuclear power in the United States and developing a safe, long-term solution for the management of used nuclear fuel and nuclear waste.  The work of the Blue Ribbon Commission will be invaluable to this process.  I want to thank Congressman Hamilton and General Scowcroft for leading the Commission and I look forward to receiving their recommendations," said Secretary Chu.

            Secretary Chu Announces A Blue Ribbon Commission On America's Nuclear Future.

            Now mind you, I am not endorsing the Presidents remarks in toto, since I for instance, unlike Amory Lovins and other anti-nukes here and elsewhere contend that remarks about "clean coal" are inherent oxymorons.   I have always supported the immediate phase out of all dangerous fossil fuels.  That said, I fully endorse the President's and Secretary of Energy's remarks on nuclear energy.

            Still the President clearly doesn't hate nuclear science or nuclear energy and one may not argue that Steven Chu doesn't either, certainly not the way that people who know no nuclear science do.

            I am satisfied that we have a very good President, which is, of course, precisely what we need.

            Of course, if you disagree with the President and the Secretary of Energy, you have the option of running for President yourself in the next Democratic Primaries.

            I'm sure you'll do very well.

            Have a nice and pleasant day.  

            •  You are dodging the questions , as always . (0+ / 0-)

              Keep on attacking those straw men , it makes you look so strong , so manly , so scientific .
              ....................................................
              http://www.dailykos.com/...

              Famous Anti-nuke Amory Lovins describes his revenue sources:
              Mr. Lovins’s other clients have included Accenture, Allstate, AMD, Anglo American, Anheuser-Busch, Bank of America, Baxter, Borg-Warner, BP, HP Bulmer, Carrier, Chevron, Ciba-Geigy, CLSA, ConocoPhillips, Corning, Dow, Equitable, GM, HP, Invensys, Lockheed Martin, Mitsubishi, Monsanto, Motorola, Norsk Hydro, Petrobras, Prudential, Rio Tinto, Royal Dutch/Shell, Shearson Lehman Amex, STMicroelectronics, Sun Oil, Suncor, Texas Instruments, UBS, Unilever, Westinghouse, Xerox, major developers, and over 100 energy utilities. His public-sector clients have included the OECD, the UN, and RFF; the Australian, Canadian, Dutch, German, and Italian governments; 13 states; Congress, and the U.S. Energy and Defense Departments.

              http://www.dailykos.com/...

              Famous Anti-nuke Amory Lovins describes his revenue sources:
              Mr. Lovins’s other clients have included Accenture, Allstate, AMD, Anglo American, Anheuser-Busch, Bank of America, Baxter, Borg-Warner, BP, HP Bulmer, Carrier, Chevron, Ciba-Geigy, CLSA, ConocoPhillips, Corning, Dow, Equitable, GM, HP, Invensys, Lockheed Martin, Mitsubishi, Monsanto, Motorola, Norsk Hydro, Petrobras, Prudential, Rio Tinto, Royal Dutch/Shell, Shearson Lehman Amex, STMicroelectronics, Sun Oil, Suncor, Texas Instruments, UBS, Unilever, Westinghouse, Xerox, major developers, and over 100 energy utilities. His public-sector clients have included the OECD, the UN, and RFF; the Australian, Canadian, Dutch, German, and Italian governments; 13 states; Congress, and the U.S. Energy and Defense Departments.

              http://www.dailykos.com/...

              Famous Anti-nuke Amory Lovins describes his revenue sources:
              Mr. Lovins’s other clients have included Accenture, Allstate, AMD, Anglo American, Anheuser-Busch, Bank of America, Baxter, Borg-Warner, BP, HP Bulmer, Carrier, Chevron, Ciba-Geigy, CLSA, ConocoPhillips, Corning, Dow, Equitable, GM, HP, Invensys, Lockheed Martin, Mitsubishi, Monsanto, Motorola, Norsk Hydro, Petrobras, Prudential, Rio Tinto, Royal Dutch/Shell, Shearson Lehman Amex, STMicroelectronics, Sun Oil, Suncor, Texas Instruments, UBS, Unilever, Westinghouse, Xerox, major developers, and over 100 energy utilities. His public-sector clients have included the OECD, the UN, and RFF; the Australian, Canadian, Dutch, German, and Italian governments; 13 states; Congress, and the U.S. Energy and Defense Departments.

              http://www.dailykos.com/...

              Famous Anti-nuke Amory Lovins describes his revenue sources:
              Mr. Lovins’s other clients have included Accenture, Allstate, AMD, Anglo American, Anheuser-Busch, Bank of America, Baxter, Borg-Warner, BP, HP Bulmer, Carrier, Chevron, Ciba-Geigy, CLSA, ConocoPhillips, Corning, Dow, Equitable, GM, HP, Invensys, Lockheed Martin, Mitsubishi, Monsanto, Motorola, Norsk Hydro, Petrobras, Prudential, Rio Tinto, Royal Dutch/Shell, Shearson Lehman Amex, STMicroelectronics, Sun Oil, Suncor, Texas Instruments, UBS, Unilever, Westinghouse, Xerox, major developers, and over 100 energy utilities. His public-sector clients have included the OECD, the UN, and RFF; the Australian, Canadian, Dutch, German, and Italian governments; 13 states; Congress, and the U.S. Energy and Defense Departments.

              http://www.dailykos.com/...

              Famous Anti-nuke Amory Lovins describes his revenue sources:
              Mr. Lovins’s other clients have included Accenture, Allstate, AMD, Anglo American, Anheuser-Busch, Bank of America, Baxter, Borg-Warner, BP, HP Bulmer, Carrier, Chevron, Ciba-Geigy, CLSA, ConocoPhillips, Corning, Dow, Equitable, GM, HP, Invensys, Lockheed Martin, Mitsubishi, Monsanto, Motorola, Norsk Hydro, Petrobras, Prudential, Rio Tinto, Royal Dutch/Shell, Shearson Lehman Amex, STMicroelectronics, Sun Oil, Suncor, Texas Instruments, UBS, Unilever, Westinghouse, Xerox, major developers, and over 100 energy utilities. His public-sector clients have included the OECD, the UN, and RFF; the Australian, Canadian, Dutch, German, and Italian governments; 13 states; Congress, and the U.S. Energy and Defense Departments.

              http://www.dailykos.com/...

              Famous Anti-nuke Amory Lovins describes his revenue sources:
              Mr. Lovins’s other clients have included Accenture, Allstate, AMD, Anglo American, Anheuser-Busch, Bank of America, Baxter, Borg-Warner, BP, HP Bulmer, Carrier, Chevron, Ciba-Geigy, CLSA, ConocoPhillips, Corning, Dow, Equitable, GM, HP, Invensys, Lockheed Martin, Mitsubishi, Monsanto, Motorola, Norsk Hydro, Petrobras, Prudential, Rio Tinto, Royal Dutch/Shell, Shearson Lehman Amex, STMicroelectronics, Sun Oil, Suncor, Texas Instruments, UBS, Unilever, Westinghouse, Xerox, major developers, and over 100 energy utilities. His public-sector clients have included the OECD, the UN, and RFF; the Australian, Canadian, Dutch, German, and Italian governments; 13 states; Congress, and the U.S. Energy and Defense Departments.

              http://www.dailykos.com/...

              Famous Anti-nuke Amory Lovins describes his revenue sources:
              Mr. Lovins’s other clients have included Accenture, Allstate, AMD, Anglo American, Anheuser-Busch, Bank of America, Baxter, Borg-Warner, BP, HP Bulmer, Carrier, Chevron, Ciba-Geigy, CLSA, ConocoPhillips, Corning, Dow, Equitable, GM, HP, Invensys, Lockheed Martin, Mitsubishi, Monsanto, Motorola, Norsk Hydro, Petrobras, Prudential, Rio Tinto, Royal Dutch/Shell, Shearson Lehman Amex, STMicroelectronics, Sun Oil, Suncor, Texas Instruments, UBS, Unilever, Westinghouse, Xerox, major developers, and over 100 energy utilities. His public-sector clients have included the OECD, the UN, and RFF; the Australian, Canadian, Dutch, German, and Italian governments; 13 states; Congress, and the U.S. Energy and Defense Departments.

              http://www.dailykos.com/...

              Famous Anti-nuke Amory Lovins describes his revenue sources:
              Mr. Lovins’s other clients have included Accenture, Allstate, AMD, Anglo American, Anheuser-Busch, Bank of America, Baxter, Borg-Warner, BP, HP Bulmer, Carrier, Chevron, Ciba-Geigy, CLSA, ConocoPhillips, Corning, Dow, Equitable, GM, HP, Invensys, Lockheed Martin, Mitsubishi, Monsanto, Motorola, Norsk Hydro, Petrobras, Prudential, Rio Tinto, Royal Dutch/Shell, Shearson Lehman Amex, STMicroelectronics, Sun Oil, Suncor, Texas Instruments, UBS, Unilever, Westinghouse, Xerox, major developers, and over 100 energy utilities. His public-sector clients have included the OECD, the UN, and RFF; the Australian, Canadian, Dutch, German, and Italian governments; 13 states; Congress, and the U.S. Energy and Defense Departments.

              http://www.dailykos.com/...

              Famous Anti-nuke Amory Lovins describes his revenue sources:
              Mr. Lovins’s other clients have included Accenture, Allstate, AMD, Anglo American, Anheuser-Busch, Bank of America, Baxter, Borg-Warner, BP, HP Bulmer, Carrier, Chevron, Ciba-Geigy, CLSA, ConocoPhillips, Corning, Dow, Equitable, GM, HP, Invensys, Lockheed Martin, Mitsubishi, Monsanto, Motorola, Norsk Hydro, Petrobras, Prudential, Rio Tinto, Royal Dutch/Shell, Shearson Lehman Amex, STMicroelectronics, Sun Oil, Suncor, Texas Instruments, UBS, Unilever, Westinghouse, Xerox, major developers, and over 100 energy utilities. His public-sector clients have included the OECD, the UN, and RFF; the Australian, Canadian, Dutch, German, and Italian governments; 13 states; Congress, and the U.S. Energy and Defense Departments.

              Can you say spam ?

              •  i am merely pointing out who owns the anti-nuke (0+ / 0-)

                industry by stating who pays Amory Lovins.

                It seems not to get through.   Some people, dangerous fossil fuel apologist anti-nukes all, seem to think Amory Lovins is a hero.

                On the contrary.   He's a pro-dangerous fossil fuel marketeer who does nothing for any reason other than money.

                •  ... (0+ / 0-)

                  "We're running an advanced industrial economy on the remains of primeval swamp goo and dinosaur poop," ...... says. "There are more modern ways to do this that actually work better and cost less. The transition will be very advantageous for the businesses that lead it."

                  "We could burn our last oil by sometime in the 2040s,"

                  •  I would assume you are quoting the BP consultant (0+ / 0-)

                    Lovins here, although, predictably, you're short on references.

                    Everything Lovins says is garbage.

                    Nothing that Lovins has predicted has actually come to pass; as a soothsayer, he's pretty bad, just like the rest of the "nuclear is dead" anti-nukes.

                    He is been roundly ridiculed on this point by the much brighter, much better informed, and far more honest Vaclav Smil.

                    I covered this point on another website where I write in a post called Wither the Steel.

    •  In China, where they have a future... (0+ / 0-)

      ...among other places.  (They are also building DME plants in China that are now supplying Japan.)

      China just announced the beginning of construction of a new nuclear partk this week.

      http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/...

      They have 24 reactors under construction and plan 400 by 2050.

      http://www.world-nuclear.org/...

      Just because a group of bourgeois westerners have had life long fantasies about solar and wind, doesn't mean that the rest of the world is quite so oblivious.

      Every single reactor built in China produces more energy that Germany produces from solar energy and more energy than Denmark produces by wind.

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