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View Diary: EcoAdvocates: Our Toxic Lives (64 comments)

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  •  The problem I have with diaries like this (0+ / 0-)

    although some of what you say is relevant and valid (brominated diphenyl ethers), other parts are imagined horrors (everyone wearing silver underwear). The triclosan-dioxin link IMO seems highly likely based on my knowledge of chemistry. But the it makes it hard for me to take any of it seriously when some is good info and other parts are bad.

    "Everybody does better, when everybody does better" - Paul Wellstone 1997

    by yuriwho on Wed Aug 25, 2010 at 06:05:09 PM PDT

    •  well tell you what (3+ / 0-)

      go check the links I've provided. Each chemical is linked to a page on the wiki Sourcewatch that I've basically built. The Triclosan info I've checked past the Natural Resource Defense Council. Check the studies, which I have have linked as references to each claim made on the Sourcewatch page. See what you think. Obviously ONE study isn't conclusive evidence of something. It's just a reason to do more studies and find out the truth. But for some of these chemicals, when we're doing unknown harm with little benefit, that seems very foolish.

      •  I looked at your references/links before I posted (0+ / 0-)

        the bottom line is that colloidal silver, as dumb an idea as that might be as a long lasting antibacterial is not the grave threat to humanity and should not be sandwiched in between two widely used products for which the data and chemistry of is much better understood. It stands out like a sore thumb to me as a perceived threat rather than an actual threat. All of which impacts credibility.

        "Everybody does better, when everybody does better" - Paul Wellstone 1997

        by yuriwho on Wed Aug 25, 2010 at 06:27:45 PM PDT

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        •  OK well read through the studies (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Larsstephens

          I've got the full studies for many of them, bc only abstracts are available online. But the studies look pretty conclusive that there's a problem that needs to be checked out and they all point in the same direction. There's one study I don't think I've read fully yet about how nanosilver is harmful to nitrifying bacteria and I am not sure if I put that that one on the site.

    •  with all due respect (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Larsstephens

      since you note that you believe at least some of Jill's claims here are likely true;

      But the it makes it hard for me to take any of it seriously when some is good info and other parts are bad.

      might be framed a little more gently, or even omitted, via merely stating which claims you think are likely valid, and which you are doubtful about.

      Otherwise what you are suggesting is that it's Jill you are having trouble taking seriously, which is I think unnecessary.

      "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." - Zappa

      by Miep on Wed Aug 25, 2010 at 07:33:24 PM PDT

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      •  I was pretty clear in what I said (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Miep

        I do not consider colloidal silver to be much of a threat to anyone. There are a few companies who market and sell it in a few products but it's actually in very few peoples homes or wardrobes. The other topics she raises are valid IMO. To elevate a fringe item (colloidal silver impregnated undergarments) as equal to....or more relevant than widely used items like hand soap antibacterials that can potentially become dioxins (well established deadly toxins) makes the whole message weaker. That was my point. It taints the messenger and the message. I object to people who make wild largely unsubstantiated claims about one thing and lump them together with something most people can agree upon.

        Frankly it does not help the cause to sell snake oil along with medicine. You need to establish a brand as a messenger that has credibility. To establish that brand you need to base your message on facts more than hyperbole.

        "Everybody does better, when everybody does better" - Paul Wellstone 1997

        by yuriwho on Wed Aug 25, 2010 at 08:07:29 PM PDT

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        •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

          I object to people who make wild largely unsubstantiated claims about one thing and lump them together with something most people can agree upon.

          How about "I object to people making?"

          I don't want to get into the actual question between you and Jill about silver; y'all are the people who are doing the reading.

          This was merely an exercise in nit-picking ad hominem policing.

          Carry on yuriwho; your input is always of value on this site.

          "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." - Zappa

          by Miep on Wed Aug 25, 2010 at 08:23:30 PM PDT

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        •  There is a large and growing market for anti (0+ / 0-)

          microbial clothing and textiles, perhaps you were not aware. They are used for workout clothes, bedding, upholstery, table linens, outdoor clothing, kids clothing, rugs and carpet, and work clothes. There are a few manufacturers who claim to use heavy metal free methods of making textiles for this market but most use heavy metals that do disapate or leach into the environment via contact or washing. The brand making the largest and loudest envirofriendly claim is Aegis.

          "And tell me how does god choose whose prayers does he refuse?" Tom Waits

          by madaprn on Wed Aug 25, 2010 at 08:53:29 PM PDT

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        •  yo, yuriwho; what do you think of this? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          yuriwho

          from World Climate Report, dated today.

          "Alarmists?" Who are these people?

          No need to write at any length, but if you know a link that rebuts them, I'd be interested...I don't like the language, if you get my drift.

          thanks if so.

          Southwest Drought?

          As we have covered in previous essays, global warming alarmists insist that the southwestern United States is getting drier and will get substantially drier in the future due to the buildup of greenhouse gases. They bolster their claims by results from a relatively large number of articles in the professional scientific literature and countless comments in various UN IPCC reports. Throw in pictures of declining water levels at Lake Mead, some fountains in Las Vegas and golf courses in Phoenix, and just like magic, a scary scenario is produced.

          As with virtually every other element of the climate change issue, the literature produces some surprises, and the drought in the Southwest claim runs up against some interesting realities. The latest article on this subject appears in a recent issue of the Journal of Geophysical Research and once again, the results are at odds with the popular perception of increased drought in the Southwest.

          This recent work was produced by scientists with the U.S. Geological Survey and the University of Delaware and had to survive the peer-review process for this respected journal of the American Geophysical Union. The final two sentences reveal where this is going as McCabe et al. conclude "El Niño events have been more frequent, and this has resulted in increased precipitation in the southwestern United States, particularly during the cool season. The increased precipitation is associated with a decrease in the number of dry days and a decrease in dry event length." What? More rain and fewer dry periods? We knew right away this would be featured in World Climate Report.

          "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." - Zappa

          by Miep on Wed Aug 25, 2010 at 09:49:12 PM PDT

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          •  If it comes down to a MMA fight between LV (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Miep

            NV and LA, CA

            LA is gonna win. But it won't be pretty. In the end money and politics usually wins and when Nevada realizes that they will gratefully accept the national nuclear waste repository. It's just a matter of time and money.

            "Everybody does better, when everybody does better" - Paul Wellstone 1997

            by yuriwho on Wed Aug 25, 2010 at 11:42:14 PM PDT

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          •  I should add (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Miep

            yes, the southwest is going to get hotter and drier. The Ogallala aquifer is being depleted as we speak and thereafter all battles will be based on the Colorado river water.

            "Everybody does better, when everybody does better" - Paul Wellstone 1997

            by yuriwho on Wed Aug 25, 2010 at 11:48:01 PM PDT

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            •  all very well put (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              yuriwho

              and thank you for getting back to me.

              I am no end of grateful that Carlsbad (NM) is running pretty much off of the Queen aquifer, that is not a fossil aquifer. It recharges from mountain runoff west of here.

              We're very close to people who are working from the doomed fossil Ogallala. I pity them and their families.

              Oh, but far as nuclear waste repositories go, you might want to read this that I just posted on my blog, about WIPP:

              http://rightofassembly.com/...

              I'm not at all convinced that Nevada will wind up the designated loser in this game.

              People down here are just begging for it, yuriwho.

              "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." - Zappa

              by Miep on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 12:09:05 AM PDT

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              •  I am only guessing (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Miep

                about politics with regard to nuclear waste. It's entirely possible that another site will be offered and accepted elsewhere.

                However I am certain that the southwest will become the site of the first water wars on US soil.

                "Everybody does better, when everybody does better" - Paul Wellstone 1997

                by yuriwho on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 12:19:59 AM PDT

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                •  yeah, of course (0+ / 0-)

                  but have you looked at any climate forecast maps about regions near the Gulf of Mexico and the Guads?

                  I'm wondering about moisture working up from there and up the areas that become more significant as they become higher (when things become hotter), as they work up higher towards the tail ends of the rockies.

                  I've seen projection maps suggesting Silver City, for example, will be minimally hit with climate change.

                  I live in Carlsbad; we run off wells just south of the city.

                  They recharge from the Queen aquifer.

                  At this point, we're in the middle of extra rainfall.

                  We've had bad drought in the past.

                  But nobody knows what's going to happen down here now, I expect.

                  But, when the hurricanes go rough, we get a lot of rain at times. And we're not by the coast.

                  I look at this region and I seriously wonder whether we might wind up having a good climate, at least for awhile.

                  What do you think? I'd like to know.

                  "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." - Zappa

                  by Miep on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:04:43 AM PDT

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    •  slight clarification (0+ / 0-)

      There is a difference between saying; "Some of these claims seem more valid to me than others, and that might make some people less inclined to take any of it seriously" and saying that it makes it hard for you personally to take any of it seriously.

      "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." - Zappa

      by Miep on Wed Aug 25, 2010 at 07:48:40 PM PDT

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