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View Diary: "How will we explain our ignorance and our compliance to our grandchildren?" (229 comments)

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  •  Actually, and sadly, (4+ / 0-)

    most people in this country practice a religion. They just don't tend to live in the big cities. Go visit a small town in Alabama or Georgia sometime; you won't find anyone who admits to being an atheist.

    There is an art to teaching that is independent of the subject matter. - daveinojai

    by Killer of Sacred Cows on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 12:33:47 PM PDT

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    •  "you won't find anyone who admits" (8+ / 0-)

      With the exception of Rep. Pete Stark, the same holds true for Congress, though statistically and intuitively, there must be more.

      "Give to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." - Robert G. Ingersoll

      by Apost8 on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 12:40:26 PM PDT

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    •  Is that because they believe what they are (9+ / 0-)

      saying or because they know they will be ostracized if they stray from what is the norm?  There is a difference.

      Now is the time to register everyone you know will vote Democratic! Over 18 and breathing - get them registered now and to the polls in November!

      by Blogvirgin on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 12:43:17 PM PDT

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      •  I think most folks really and truly and deeply (5+ / 0-)

        believe it.  I've been more than a little shocked at the very bright scientists, lawyers, doctors, etc. that have a very deep faith in this fantasy.  I'm sure some of them have doubts and some of them maybe don't believe at all, but I suspect most of them really and truly do.

        "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

        by gustynpip on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 01:14:43 PM PDT

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        •  Ok, I'll accept that most folks honestly believe (0+ / 0-)

          what they say. How then do they reconcile their day to day actions with what they say they believe?

          Now is the time to register everyone you know will vote Democratic! Over 18 and breathing - get them registered now and to the polls in November!

          by Blogvirgin on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 05:22:07 PM PDT

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          •  None of us are particularly consistent in what (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TomP
            we say and what we do.  Most of us try to do the best we can.  Others think saying it is as good as doing it and if they say it, they don't need to do it (I was married to someone like that once).  And others just don't give a shit - they think they're above such petty things as living their beliefs.

            "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

            by gustynpip on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 05:32:03 PM PDT

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            •  If they are not willing to live it, do they (0+ / 0-)

              really believe it?  I don't think so.  I think it is just a tool they use to fit in.

              Now is the time to register everyone you know will vote Democratic! Over 18 and breathing - get them registered now and to the polls in November!

              by Blogvirgin on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 05:41:29 PM PDT

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              •  It's the "saved by faith" vs "saved by works" (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Cedwyn

                debate.

                The people who profess to be conservative Christians overwhelmingly adhere to a "saved by faith" theology: you profess your faith in Jesus and bingo, you're saved. No further anything necessary - you've got your ticket to heaven. It's like a business transaction.

                The people who profess to be liberal Christians (if they even profess a faith) overwhelmingly adhere to a "saved by works" theology: being a good example through how you behave in the world and what you do for others is the important thing, and you gotta do it all the time. It's an ongoing process that needs consistent renewal and attention.

                The folks you're talking about are the "saved by faith" folks. They've got theirs; they don't need to help anyone else.

                There is an art to teaching that is independent of the subject matter. - daveinojai

                by Killer of Sacred Cows on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 06:08:10 PM PDT

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          •  They don't feel the need to. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cedwyn

            To get a really good sense of most believers in this country, I strongly, strongly recommend the book "Stealing Jesus: How Fundamentalism Betrays Christianity" by Bruce Bawer. He explains, in meticulous detail, the rise of the fundamentalist movement from dispensationalism and premillennialism, how it is fundamentally (g) different from Christianity as practiced prior to the eighteenth century, and the focus shift from "how Jesus lived" to "how to follow the rules and get rewards". It's both fascinating and frightening.

            There is an art to teaching that is independent of the subject matter. - daveinojai

            by Killer of Sacred Cows on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 06:05:54 PM PDT

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    •  not true (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Liberty of Meat

      and you have to put up with a ton of proselytizing to boot.

      •  I've never seen any proselytizing by the religiou (0+ / 0-)

        on this website.  There are more than a few of us here. On the other hand, we aren't hiding, nor will we.  If you think any and all religious speech is proselytizing, then you have a very limited vocabulary

        Newt 2012. Sociopath, adulterer, hypocrite, Republican.

        by tikkun on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 07:06:39 PM PDT

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        •  context (0+ / 0-)

          the original comment was that no one in the bible belt admitted to being atheists, to that I replied that that wasn't true, but that if you did speak up, people proselytized you heavily.  I am routinely handed religious tracts so I can find Jesus, invited to church because their church is different, ie, not crazy right wing evangelicals, and I would feel comfortable there, etc.  Religion and church is such a part of life in small towns in the south, people just find it hard to believe that you don't believe in God versus have problems with a particular church or denomination.

          There is no need for you to be so defensive, and insulting to boot, when this site wasn't even part of the discussion.

    •  That sounds like hell to me. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blueoasis, Killer of Sacred Cows

      Go visit a small town in Alabama or Georgia sometime; you won't find anyone who admits to being an atheist.

      Harry Reid is a bigot. Howard Dean, too.

      by VictorLaszlo on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 02:59:46 PM PDT

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    •  Perhaps the key word being "admits"? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jantman

      If you are, and you want to participate in the community, it's best not to say so.

      "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

      by davewill on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 04:38:20 PM PDT

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    •  Won't find many can explain QED theory either (0+ / 0-)

      clods

      who was it wrote give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up? (Roger Waters, Amused To Death)

      by leathersmith on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 06:52:31 PM PDT

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