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View Diary: "How will we explain our ignorance and our compliance to our grandchildren?" (229 comments)

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  •  Meh... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Big Tex, TooFolkGR

    That is precisely why Ground Zero must be open to the religious expression of all people whose lives were scarred by the tragedy: Christians, Jews, Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus, and more. And Muslims.

    What about atheists and agnostics? Do they get a seat at the table too?

    Personally, if I HAD to choose a religion, it certainly wouldn't be one that discriminates against women and homosexuals.

    Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day ~ Harry S. Truman

    by HairyTrueMan on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 12:42:53 PM PDT

    •  If You HAD to Choose A Religion (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Big Tex, blueoasis, HairyTrueMan

      It wouldn't matter which one you chose.  The fact that you don't have to choose one is the only reason they're worth keeping around.

    •  Are you aware of (6+ / 0-)
      Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA)?

      http://www.elca.org/...

      The 2009 Churchwide Assembly of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) voted today to open the ministry of the church to gay and lesbian pastors and other professional workers living in committed relationships.

      They also will marrry gays and lesbians.

      As for atheists, yes, they have a seat at the table. Go build an atheist palce, like an ethical society there.  I'll defend it.

       

      Pooties and Woozles unite; you have nothing to lose but your leashes!

      by TomP on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 12:48:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We're actually looking for a church... (0+ / 0-)

        Got a baby coming any day and we want to get him baptized.  We also want to teach him right from wrong, and I think a religion can help.

        Thanks for the info Tom.

        Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day ~ Harry S. Truman

        by HairyTrueMan on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 12:56:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I find that really interesting. (3+ / 0-)

          So, "a" religion would help him know right from wrong, but you don't know what church to join? So you need to go through and find the church that best fits your own existing beliefs,and join it. That way the church can teach its values (which are yours, since that's why you picked it) with the force of religion behind them. Why don't you just skip the middleman and teach your child right from wrong yourself?

          "I wish you luck on not hating your parents for mixing up such an unthinkable person." --The frickin´ HP--

          by McWaffle on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 12:59:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Fear of God dude... (0+ / 0-)

            But don't worry, we also plan to teach him right from wrong.

            Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day ~ Harry S. Truman

            by HairyTrueMan on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 01:04:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Can't rec this comment strongly enough. This (4+ / 0-)

            bizarre idea that kids can learn right from wrong only by going to church boggles my mind.  To think of someone being an atheist and then searching for a church to have their kid baptized in is giving me a headache.  

            "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

            by gustynpip on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 01:22:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Oh jeeze... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              angry marmot

              My wife and her family are Catholic and the baptizing is for them. I convinced her to look at Episcopal churches, but that's as far as my influence goes.

              And yes, I do think that religion can teach right from wrong. And so do billions of other people.

              Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day ~ Harry S. Truman

              by HairyTrueMan on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 01:31:30 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That's actually my exact background. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                blueoasis, HairyTrueMan

                Baptized Episcopalian to put on a show for the relatives. Hasn't taught me right from wrong though, my parents did that without once mentioning God. I guess it's a good insurance policy though, just in case, eh?

                "I wish you luck on not hating your parents for mixing up such an unthinkable person." --The frickin´ HP--

                by McWaffle on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 01:37:27 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  LOL! Billions of people believe in god, too, (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Fixed Point Theorem
                so I guess they must be right and us atheists, who are very much in the minority, are wrong.  Millions believed the earth is flat and the sun goes around the earth.

                Funny, I never realized before that the number of people believing something is proof it's true.

                Really, feel free to baptize your kid however you want.  It just struck me as quite ironic that an atheist would be depending on a religion to teach their kid right from wrong.  As though religions have been terribly successful at that so far.  Glen Beck would be just the latest example.

                "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

                by gustynpip on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 01:39:20 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Could you squeeze a little more straw man... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  blueoasis

                  and red herring into your response?

                  Clearly, your parents didn't teach you any manners. Perhaps you should travel upstairs from their basement and talk to them about it.

                  Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day ~ Harry S. Truman

                  by HairyTrueMan on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 01:54:13 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Wow. Why are you so touchy on the subject? If (0+ / 0-)
                    you want to baptize your kids, go for it.  You don't need my approval.  The fact that I find it humorous is not that big a deal.  Nor is the fact that I find people's belief in a supreme being silly a big deal.  People are constantly acting as though anyone who doesn't is both stupid and evil and I don't let that offend me.  I think you're a little sensitive.

                    "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

                    by gustynpip on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 05:35:26 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

    •  Thankfully you don't have to. (^_^) (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blueoasis, HairyTrueMan, Predictor

      But yeah, that irked me a bit too.  The interfaith people seem to think that as long as each of the major religions has a seat at the table, it doesn't matter if the rest of us do, especially those of us who are non-believers.

      Proud member of the unpaid "professional left" since 8/10/2010 / Viva Canadian healthcare! Death to the Pentagon! Free Mumia!

      by Big Tex on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 12:52:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Strawman argument. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        effervescent

        The interfaith people seem to think that as long as each of the major religions has a seat at the table, it doesn't matter if the rest of us do, especially those of us who are non-believers.

        You want them to say that.

        How ridiculous.

        Pooties and Woozles unite; you have nothing to lose but your leashes!

        by TomP on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 12:59:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I said seem to think. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Predictor

          And I base this on the fact that atheists and agnostics are often excluded from interfaith organizations and public activities.  How often do you tune into a public event like the 9/11 commemorations and see an atheist or agnostic up at the podium with the Christian, Jewish and Muslim clerics?

          Proud member of the unpaid "professional left" since 8/10/2010 / Viva Canadian healthcare! Death to the Pentagon! Free Mumia!

          by Big Tex on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 01:21:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think it's because... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Big Tex

            although different religions disagree on a lot of points, atheists (and to an extent agnostics) deny the whole premise. It kinda reminds me of that Futurama bit, with the popplers? And they are on that 4-panel splitscreen talk show, and somebody goes, "slow down, nobody here is saying we shouldn't eat ANY meat..." and the hippie in one of panels exasperatedly goes, "I am! I'm saying that!" and they all talk over him? Anybody?

            "I wish you luck on not hating your parents for mixing up such an unthinkable person." --The frickin´ HP--

            by McWaffle on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 01:44:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  LOL, I remember that episode. (0+ / 0-)

              But yeah, it's like they want to pretend that we nonbelievers don't exist.

              Proud member of the unpaid "professional left" since 8/10/2010 / Viva Canadian healthcare! Death to the Pentagon! Free Mumia!

              by Big Tex on Mon Aug 30, 2010 at 01:57:20 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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