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View Diary: 95K Nader voters in FL "felt great" in 2000 (112 comments)

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  •  Sorry. (10+ / 0-)

    Nader is more relevant than ever.

    The GOP: "You can always go to the Emergency Room."

    by Upper West on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 11:50:32 AM PDT

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    •  Had Nader ever been relevant, you'd have (14+ / 0-)

      a point.

      Nearly half of all voters in FL didn't vote, which had the exact same impact on the race as voting for Nader.

      Additionally, five times as many Democrats in Florida voted for Bush as voted for Nader - meaning that the significant problem this Party has with loyalty isn't on the Left flank, it's on the Right.

      Anyone still wimpering and winging and sobbing about "*NADER!!!! ARGHHHhhhhh"  either can't do basic math, or simply gets their rocks off shouting about how personally "centrist" they are.

      'Wall Street has just done a nose dive,' tell them, 'Those Republican organizations don't interest me in the least' Will Rogers advice to FDR

      by JesseCW on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 12:02:26 PM PDT

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      •  Nader WAS relevant, (6+ / 0-)

        dumbass.  He was as relevant as unvoters in FL, he was as relevant as a shitty ballot design in south florida, he was as relevant as a crappy partisan Secretary of State.

        Just because it's just ONE cancer cell that goes metastatic doesn't mean it's more or less relevant than your crappy diet, or your lack of exercise, or lack of antioxidants, or whatever.  The point is, the end result makes them ALL relevant.

        Yes, it would be awfully nice if one or another factors were reduced, and the Nader factor was removed; just like it would be nice if you got those antioxidants, or did those pushups, or whatever.  But here's the point; when you get into the level of there being relevance, they're ALL EQUALLY relevant.  Yes, some are more preventable than others, but they ALL contributed, and are ALL to blame.

        And no, I'm most definitely not a centrist.  I just get pissed when self-involved spoiler assholes cause our country to go through 8 years of hell.  He's not the only cause, but make no mistake about it; he's relevant BECAUSE he had an effect.  

      •  Right on, Jesse. (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        claude, Aspe4, LostInTexas, JesseCW, m00finsan

        Furthermore, Gore lost his home state of Tennessee.

        What candidate loses his home state and goes on to win the Presidency? None that I know of.

        Hey, I'm not a Nader fan. I voted for Gore. But this kicking liberals thing is ridiculous. Upper West, your diary is ridiculous. Some sort of guilt trip by osmosis, as I doubt we have ten Nader voters from Florida on all of DKos.

        •  Never had any use for Nader. (4+ / 0-)

          By the time I started to really become politically aware in the early 90's, I'd heard about him taking speaking fees from the very corporations he pretended to fight.

          Didn't have that much use for Gore or the rest of the DLC either though, after they shredded a quarter of the New Deal and half the Great Society.

          'Wall Street has just done a nose dive,' tell them, 'Those Republican organizations don't interest me in the least' Will Rogers advice to FDR

          by JesseCW on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 12:28:46 PM PDT

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      •  Furthermore, 200,000 Democrats voted (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LostInTexas, o the umanity

        for George W. Bush - which is over twice the number that voted for Nader.

        Why not blame them - they seem *way* more blameworthy because not only did they not support Gore - they actively voted for W . . . ..

        If you're looking for somebody to kick long after it hardly matters, methinks it should be them.

    •  I agree. He is looking pretty prescient right (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aspe4, o the umanity, m00finsan

      about now. Perhaps a diary on how we can recognize a corporatist written by a centrist might be more apropo than whingeing on about the effects of having voted for one after the fact?.

      Who would know more about how to pick them at this point than a centrist?

      "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." Oscar Wilde

      by nippersdad on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 12:20:06 PM PDT

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      •  Prescient? (0+ / 0-)

        or the author of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

        The GOP: "You can always go to the Emergency Room."

        by Upper West on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 01:26:12 PM PDT

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        •  Um, how does warning that (0+ / 0-)

          the Heritage Foundation has people from the corporate sphere to write Bills translate into Obama having Baucus hire a former WellPoint VP to write the HIR Bill as not being prescient? The only self fulfilling prophecy that I see here is that Democrats lose elections when they try to govern like Republicans. It's not as though this hasn't happened several times now. Surely you have noticed that by now?

          Or not.

          "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." Oscar Wilde

          by nippersdad on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 01:49:03 PM PDT

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          •  How about the (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            James Allen

            self-fulfilling prophecy that Nader's 95,000 votes in FL elected Bush and that therefore Alito and Roberts created Citizens United, which exponentially increased corporate influence?

            The GOP: "You can always go to the Emergency Room."

            by Upper West on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 02:07:12 PM PDT

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            •  I personally think that Clinton and Gore's (0+ / 0-)

              NAFTA policies had more to do with those 95,000 votes than did Nader. Nader would not have HAD a platform in the first place had the Democratic Party not permitted it. The Democratic Party had as much or more to do with the selection of Bush and the subsequent Alito and Roberts appointments than did Nader.

              Citizen's United could very easily be legislated away and was sufficiently long ago that it should have been by now. Nader probably would have a lot to say as to why this didn't happen. That is why you are so worried about his influence this time.

              Admit it.

              "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." Oscar Wilde

              by nippersdad on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 03:12:53 PM PDT

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              •  I don't care about him or (0+ / 0-)

                his influence this time.

                My point is only the analogy. Passivity among Dem voters and activists will lead to horrible results this time, enabling the very worst into leadership of our government.

                The GOP: "You can always go to the Emergency Room."

                by Upper West on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 06:38:04 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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