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View Diary: Sunday Train: Sustaining Our Suburbs (93 comments)

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  •  I was just talking with someone (9+ / 0-)

    yesterday about this:

    Suburban slum is the natural end point of the path that we are presently treading.

    And my proposed solution was the very same you suggest. I can see no other way to render these slums useful.

    Thanks for this series.

    The best way to save the planet is to keep laughing!

    by LaughingPlanet on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 04:50:14 PM PDT

    •  Quite ... (7+ / 0-)

      ... other than pointing to the benefits offered to suburbs, including outer suburbs, of the dime a gallon imported crude oil tariff ... everything else is just saying that there's a chance of rain by looking out the front door and seeing the heavy gray rainclouds overhead.

      Of course, the mess media do not report this, but that's because they do not look out the front door.

      Start 2010 with Lesbian Creative Works, 100% Yuri from ALC Publishing

      by BruceMcF on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 04:53:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Come on... (0+ / 0-)

      We're on the verge of electric vehicles becoming roughly the same price as current petroleum vehicles and very cheap to fuel.

      EV batteries have dropped from $1,000 per kW to $400 in the last couple of years.  When they hit $250 per kW EVs will match current gas powered vehicle costs.

      It costs about three cents a mile to run an EV on average-priced US grid electricity.  That cost will drop with 'time of use' billing as most EVs will be recharged during late night/off-peak hours.

      A 30 MPG ICE burning $3/gallon gas costs ten cents a mile.  Plus the cost of oil/filter changes and more repair costs.

      People aren't going to leave their desired suburban lifestyles and crowd into cities due to the cost of oil.

      Even if they had to pay an extra $10k for an electric vehicle (current price) for their commute, they would do so.  They'd get that money back in a few years of fuel savings.

      That's just tired old thinking....

      "They were overwhelmed by the learned ignorance, the accepted say-so of the times." Teale

      by BobTrips on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 05:31:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh, I'm sorry, I had been under the ... (5+ / 0-)

        ... impression you had read the diary.

        Clearly, if you say,

        People aren't going to leave their desired suburban lifestyles and crowd into cities due to the cost of oil.

        ... you have not read the diary, which nowhere mentions everyone abandoning suburbia and crowding into crowded urban areas as an option.

        Rather, you seem to have pigeonholed the diary into a position for which you have a standard set of talking points.

        A private electric vehicle is more polluting than a private gas-powered vehicle for the 95% of the day that it is sitting occupied a parking spot ... and in many cases, occupying a parking spot provided by zoning mandate rather than one provided by free choice of the property owner.

        Start 2010 with Lesbian Creative Works, 100% Yuri from ALC Publishing

        by BruceMcF on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 05:43:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Was I talking to you? (0+ / 0-)

          But as long as you have butted in - how do you figure that a EV is more polluting than an ICE while sitting in a parking space?

          "They were overwhelmed by the learned ignorance, the accepted say-so of the times." Teale

          by BobTrips on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 05:48:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And - in your diary you did say... (0+ / 0-)

            When, not if, gas returns to $4/gallon in real terms (corrected for inflation), that will be about one hour's minimum wage work for two gallons of gas. When, not if, it reaches $8/gallon in real terms, that will be about one hour's of minimum wage work for one gallon of gasoline.

            People who cannot afford to get to work, shopping, school and other activities from a house cannot afford to live in that house, even if the house were to be given to them for free.

            And that is the other side of the Sustaining the Suburbs dilemma: the Hard Place of escalating Resident+Transport costs.

            Perhaps you forgot that?

            "They were overwhelmed by the learned ignorance, the accepted say-so of the times." Teale

            by BobTrips on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 05:52:03 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yes, I said that. (5+ / 0-)

              How do you get from there to reading the policy described in the diary, which LaughingPlanet agrees with in the comment you reply to, as talking about people leaving:

              their desired suburban lifestyles and crowd into cities due to the cost of oil.

              Its like you hit the part where it says:

              I do not come, in other words, to Bury the Suburbs, but to Save Them. Sprawl Development ~ yes, that can be buried. But the material waste of abandoning the suburbs and building all new residences for half of the US population is something that we can most definitely avoid.

              ... and it just does not compute for you and so you ignore it and pretend that the diary is about abandoning the suburbs.

              Start 2010 with Lesbian Creative Works, 100% Yuri from ALC Publishing

              by BruceMcF on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 06:31:46 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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