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View Diary: American Taliban is an Oxymoron (131 comments)

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  •  Sorry, It's Not the Same (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greatdarkspot, joedemocrat

    Tiller was killed by a single nut-job.

    Now let me ask you a question. You must have friends and families who define themselves as "conservative." How many of those folks that you know would be willing to go as far as the nut who killed Tiller?

    •  Tiller was killed by a nut-job that was part... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gsenski, DontTaseMeBro

      of a group of other nut-jobs who believe in precisely what he did.

      A group now commonly and rightly referred to as The American Taliban.

      More and Better Democrats

      by SJerseyIndy on Sun Sep 19, 2010 at 04:56:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I have written about antiabortion violence (3+ / 0-)

        for many years. It existed before the Taliban, as did the American Religious Right.

        I am not a prognosticator, but my hunch is that this term will be briefly fashionable among a narrow group of people before it gets stale.

      •  You Refused to Answer My Question (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greatdarkspot, joedemocrat

        And that says it all.

        •  Sorry, admittedly I was so blown away... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tmo, newpioneer

          by the miss-the-mark first sentence that I didn't even make it there.

          To be quite honest: most of the folks I know who call themselves "conservatives" are mostly not when it boils down to it on the issues.

          They just... call themselves "conservative".

          Though, there are some who I would say indeed are... and they do indeed share many of the same beliefs, like:

          a) anti-gay
          b) an almost animus hang-up about sex and sexuality
          c) women in a subservient role
          d) religion over science, because god knows and will take care of it all, of course

          and almost to a person they love their firearms, and talk about them and the other issues in away that causes me to believe they are prone to using them to carry out violence.

          As a result, I do my best to avoid them and keep different company.

          More and Better Democrats

          by SJerseyIndy on Sun Sep 19, 2010 at 05:36:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I personally have known conservative christians.. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Frank Cocozzelli

      I can't name a single one who would support violent acts to further religious or political goals..

      I think you are spot on this is a tiny fraction of the pro-life movement..

      I've thought about your diary, and in a way trying to appeal to their better angels is more sensible than demonizing them or name calling..point out how the Republican platform is inconsistent with their christian beliefs..

      "Comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable" - Dorothy Day

      by joedemocrat on Sun Sep 19, 2010 at 05:36:23 PM PDT

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    •  No the real question is, "Is the percentage of (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SJerseyIndy

      religious right members in the US willing to kill the same or greater than the percentage of Taliban members willing to perform an equivalent killing?" And considering the Taliban is a subsection of Islam, I could probably shrink the American grouping a bit to be fairer.

      The major difference that you push aside too easily is that in Afghanistan, the Taliban had/have a society and laws/lawlessness that allow overt practice of their prejudices. Here in the US, those in favor of Taliban equivalent hatreds do not have the ability to practice out in the open - yet - that is what they are trying to achieve. So we have the occasional murder, more beatings, and as much media shoving as is politically feasible as they continue to try to move discussion and to move reality rightward. They don't call for Biblical punishments yet, because they lack the political access and clout to succeed. But I am not sure I agree with you that it wouldn't happen if they did. I think that is where they are going. Look at the Montana GOP's recent platform for the most recent example. You don't think that will get "stronger" should politics in this country swing more to the right? I recognize your significant work in this field (and if I don't, your bulldog Frederick Clarkson will surely remind me), but if anyone should be aware of the trending it should be you.

      30 years ago, nobody in this country would have remotely believed that the US would submit to using torture - not on the right or the left - not Republican or Democrat, not my conservative family members or my liberal family members. Look how far we've regressed now.

      "If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers." - Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

      by Uwaine on Sun Sep 19, 2010 at 06:07:23 PM PDT

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      •  30 years ago (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Frank Cocozzelli

        there was no Taliban. And there is no Taliban equivalent in the United States.  There is plenty of bad stuff to talk about and plenty of clear-eyed and forceful ways of talking about it in order to take it seriously.  

        Thirty years ago, no one believed that the American Religious Right would become as strong as it has. Ditto for twenty. Ditto for ten. But here we are, being lectured by the nouveau about the Montana GOP platform. Some of us have spent years lot of time seeking to understand these things, as well as writing and speaking about it, and are unsurprised.

        •  There was the Ku Klux Klan. They aren't (0+ / 0-)

          "nouveau". They had a nice long run. Still at it as the Council for Conservative Citizens IIRC. How many lynchings, beatings and intimidation ploys were they able to pull off for years even though they were still covert, regarding the laws on the books?

          I just don't think the American Religious Right is that "new" even if it has morphed into something with a better hidden face and more members who wouldn't be Klansmen. The ugly violent undercurrent of that movement is still there, and has always been there - however detailed a metaphor or hyperbolic a metaphor one chooses.

          At any rate, I bow to your superior knowledge to which you have referred repeatedly. You & Mr. Cocozzelli clearly are much more astute than all of us here. I'm sorry we wasted your time with our replies.

          "If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers." - Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

          by Uwaine on Mon Sep 20, 2010 at 11:02:54 AM PDT

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    •  Yet another lame argument (0+ / 0-)

      This one is nothing but a right wing talking point, that every event has only one cause. So if the perp is at all mentally unstable, the fact that in his own words he murdered people for God and the Bible is irrelevant. Or that he attributes his actions to inspiration by Glenn Beck.

      It's basically an excuse to advocate violent action against those you disagree with while refusing to take responsibility for those who act on it. I'm not sure why a person like you would be supporting this philosophy, though.

      "Too big to fail" is not too big to jail.

      by Angela Quattrano on Mon Sep 20, 2010 at 09:59:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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