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View Diary: The Stockholm syndrome of the "professional left" -Eric Alterman edition (159 comments)

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  •  I didn't (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mike Taylor, nippersdad, cybrestrike

    start this diary. I just think it would have been pragmatic, because now dems are going to lose the house and that is tragic.

    •  one has nothing, demonstratably (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      malharden, Larsstephens

      to do with the other.

      why not stop tearing down the progress made so far?

      •  So demonstrate it. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cybrestrike

        That this is part of a larger picture of waffling insufficiency does not make it any less an ingredient.

        "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." Oscar Wilde

        by nippersdad on Mon Sep 20, 2010 at 12:51:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  it's not up to me to prove his point (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Larsstephens

          which is what that is in reference too.

          •  You said that the one "demonstrably" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            cybrestrike

            had nothing to do with the other. Again, demonstrate it. You claimed a point, I am merely asking you to clarify it.

            "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." Oscar Wilde

            by nippersdad on Mon Sep 20, 2010 at 01:13:34 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  i mean so far (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Larsstephens

              with more data that can change.

              are you really having a hard time following the thread?

              •  No, I have had no difficulty following this (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Mike Taylor, cybrestrike

                thread. The initial point was that actually following through with campaign promises would have helped Democrats in a mid-terms that looks bad because everything promised has been compromised into an alternate reality.

                Claiming that something that no one voted on "is a start" does not change the good sense of that initial point.

                "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." Oscar Wilde

                by nippersdad on Mon Sep 20, 2010 at 01:24:49 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  claiming the loss of the PO (0+ / 0-)

                  as to the cause of future losses is simply not demonstrable at this time.

                  for one, the election has happened yet.

                  duh.  you really can't follow a thread.

                  •  Really? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    cybrestrike

                    He did not claim that it was the sole reason for such predicted losses, he said that the inclusion of a PO would be something that the Democratic Party could point to when detractors call them corporate sell outs; something that they could run on having surmounted the odds and actually achieved.

                    That it is an ingredient in the larger picture of bad salesmanship is indisputable. Creation of an oligopolistic insurance monopoly and calling it health care reform is positively Orwellian in its' breathtaking stupidity.

                    "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." Oscar Wilde

                    by nippersdad on Mon Sep 20, 2010 at 01:44:10 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  yes he did (0+ / 0-)

                      in the comment i was responding to.

                      which is why i was wondering if you're following the thread.

                      •  Go back to his initial premise: (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        cybrestrike

                        The public option would have been pragmatic Because it would have helped get out the dem base during this election. As it stands there are precious few successes that dems can point to when GOTV.

                        I have been following along just fine. In the comment you were responding to he does not change course from the initial premise, I think you were trying to change the subject to one that was never intended. Perhaps it is not I that is having comprehension difficulties?

                        "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." Oscar Wilde

                        by nippersdad on Mon Sep 20, 2010 at 02:01:33 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  if you followed the thread (0+ / 0-)

                          I just think it would have been pragmatic, because now dems are going to lose the house and that is tragic.

                          •  Yes? (0+ / 0-)

                            Implicit in this given his initial premise should have been:

                            I just think it would have been pragmatic, because now dems are going to lose the house as a result of having little to point to and that is tragic.

                            That was his whole bloody point. In a season with little to point to something like the PO would have proven invaluable for getting out the vote. Red meat for the partisans is where it is at during mid-terms. Telling people that a corporate written and implemented oligarchy of insurance monopolists are now in charge of their health care with a government mandate backing them up really is not the same thing.

                            "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." Oscar Wilde

                            by nippersdad on Mon Sep 20, 2010 at 02:39:36 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  there is so much to point to (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            nippersdad, Larsstephens

                            but we keep getting Obama has done nothing..

                            my point was regarding his predictions of us losing the elections that haven't even happened yet.

      •  They have a lot to do with each other (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nippersdad

        Americans are aware of the health care fight from last summer. It's something that effects everyone. 70% of americans supported the public option. Not sure how many support the mandate, probably the 1% rich.

        •  Dems aren't going to lose congress (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Larsstephens

          for one.

          so next bullshit statement..

          oh right, the we're going to lose because of the PO.  

          wrong imo.  it's the economy and sadly republicans, who have stalled everything the Dems have done.

          we'll see what the exit polls say.  i put $20 on the economy being the number 1 reason.

          •  True, it is the economy. (0+ / 0-)

            But polls do show repubs taking the house, and dems losing a few senate seats. And that is because of the jobs, stupid. Maybe back when Obama was first inaugurated they looked at their financial stats and decided that there was no way to imrpove the economy enough by 2010, with so many repubs and conservadems in the senate. Which means the dems knew they would lose elections in 2010 no matter what. So they decided there was no point in pushing for the public option.

            •  jobs weren't going to come back that soon (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Larsstephens

              it's in the analysis.  you know economics?

              blame Obama for Bush's mess.  the republicans had it too easy this time.  

              you guys fall for it.  

              •  jobs could come back (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Mike Taylor

                in 6 months with a new new deal. Yes I know that's not happening.

                The middle class has been declining since the 70s, it's not some cyclical recession. No I'm not calling it a depression like the 30s, the difference being that we have a safety net. It doesn't matter who is to blame at this point. This election will have record low turnout, and unfortunately it's the crazy right wingers who always vote no matter what.

                •  jobs are coming back (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Larsstephens

                  every day they are coming back.  you ignore reality here.  the markets aren't back yet but they are moving in that direction.  go look at calculated risk, every chart shows the dip and the recovery.  things are still bad though.  we have a huge inventory of homes for one.  those problems will still be around during the recovery.  

                  you seem to think our economy, our way of life is based on lies and could come down on us at any time.  that's crazy talk.  

                  you want to argue about something else it seems.

            •  too soon to say what polls say about the House (0+ / 0-)

              Generic polls are a very crude indicator.

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