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View Diary: WI-Sen/WI-Gov: Dems hurting with six weeks to go (406 comments)

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  •  Wow (9+ / 0-)
    Even if you account for the enthusiasm turnout, Johnson would still lead.

    Not mentioned in this article: Feingold's approval rating is at 40 positive, 53 negative, lethal numbers for any incumbent.

    BTW- the demographic numbers at the bottom of the poll are wrong.

    The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

    by fladem on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 08:50:51 AM PDT

    •  Is it possible (17+ / 0-)

      that Feingold's voting against things, in an effort to get them to be more progressive, has backfired to produce those pos/neg numbers?

      Per Progressive Punch, Feingold is now the 55th most progressive Democrat:

      55       Feingold, Russell       D       WI       87.66        64.15        87.80        76.72        Leaning Dem        +7.66       rank 5

      He votes like Claire McCaskill and Blanche Lincoln, because bills aren't progressive enough. And perhaps that is costing him.

      In other words, "having a spine" and "standing for principles" is not the path to glory.

      In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

      by blue aardvark on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 08:59:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree, blue aardvark (n/t) (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        askew, blue aardvark
      •  It's definitely cost him. (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        askew, Vicky, kefauver, blue aardvark, moonpal

        In times like these, principles should go out the window for practical solutions.

        "Half of the American people never read a newspaper. Half never vote for President. One hopes it is the same half." - Gore Vidal

        by sapper on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 09:05:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Absolutely (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        askew, moonpal

        "Statistics are people with the tears washed away." Sociologist Ruth Sidel

        by Vicky on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 09:09:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  His numbers are worse (5+ / 0-)

        than Obama among Democrats (85-10 versus 77-15) but I don't think that is the reason.

        He is getting killed among independents, and that isn't because he didn't support Obama enough.

        The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

        by fladem on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 09:15:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So, running away from Obama pissed off the (8+ / 0-)

          base costing Feingold support, while it did nothing to help with independents.

          •  One read of if (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            GreenSooner, Cream City, zett

            but there is not a huge shift among Democrats.

            Really, though, I think this about the economy.

            The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

            by fladem on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 09:35:56 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The economy isn't that bad in WI overall. (5+ / 0-)

              I think the problem is two-fold - one the students aren't paying attention yet and Dems can't win without U-W Madison students turning out. Obama is holding a rally there that will help. The other is Feingold pissing off the AA community in Milwaukee with his publicly dissing Obama. He needs them to turn out and taking a crap on Obama isn't going to get them to the polls.

              •  Now (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                askew, Geotpf, Escamillo, flhiii88

                I wonder if being too negative about Obama will hurt you in the African American community.  That might be an issue, and Feignold is only up 50-33 among them.

                But I don't believe PPP on thisd, and Obama should be able to help with that group if is a problem.

                The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

                by fladem on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 09:45:45 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'd like to see Obama do some rallies in (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Escamillo

                  major cities to drive out the AA vote including Milwaukee. Of course that would mean that Feingold would have to show up for the Milwaukee rally. Feingold left the last Milwaukee rally before Obama arrived and got a lot of press for it in WI.

              •  We need to mobilize the student vote. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Geotpf

                They are on the front lines of the important issue of LGBT rights. We need to get the professors at UW-Madison to frankly do their job and educate students on the important issues of the day, namely cap-and-trade, repeal of DOMA/DADT and comprehensive immigration reform.  It is up to the professors, they need to do their job in educating the students to get out and vote.

                •  Fer pity's sake, now it's the profs (3+ / 0-)

                  who aren't doing their job?  Their job is not to promulgate the party; that's for the gov and the Dem party to do.

                  And do the research; Wisconsin voters of student age already turn out to vote more than in all but one other state -- and that was so even before 2008.  Aim for the voters who usually stay home.

                  "Let all the dreamers wake the nation." -- Carly Simon

                  by Cream City on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 09:56:28 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  We need the professors to enforce. (0+ / 0-)

                    The education college students are receiving from other important sources like MTV and movies. Students learn first hand of the wonders of having LGBT friends, of the need to have student loans extinguished, of the wonders of having friends who are great people in all respects but are solely lacking a document. In other words, it is professor's job to reinforce what students learn from MTV and other tremendous sources of knowledge and people power.

                    •  Reinforce, maybe. Enforce? No. (0+ / 0-)

                      Fer pity's sake, we're trying to educate them, including to see all sides.  

                      It's a massive task, already.  If you want preachers instead of teachers, endow your local Bible college.

                      "Let all the dreamers wake the nation." -- Carly Simon

                      by Cream City on Wed Sep 22, 2010 at 08:41:21 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  Well, I am not sure it is the prof's job. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  greatdarkspot

                  And remember in WI, you can register to vote on election day. I wouldn't expect students to get too excited about the midterms until Obama's rally in WI.

                  •  Obama's rally will be in Madison (0+ / 0-)

                    where it is least needed to get out the student vote -- in part because a lot of students in Madison are not (and will not opt to vote as) Wisconsinites.

                    Obama already had his rally in Milwaukee, with the UW campus with many more Wisconsinites -- but it was a rally for union members, and school barely had started.  He could return to Milwaukee . . . but we didn't need no prezzes and badges to already be one of the top states for student turnout at the polls, and for a long time now.  (So yeh, you don't need to remind us of our voting regs in Wisconsin. . . .)

                    Again, I would see him as more useful in the Indy voter areas.

                    "Let all the dreamers wake the nation." -- Carly Simon

                    by Cream City on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 10:58:07 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  A rally in Madison is absolutely essential for (0+ / 0-)

                      Dems. We are going to get thousands of votes from Madison students alone. A large portion of the students at Madison are Wisconsites and others will choose to vote in Wisconsin instead of their home states.

                      I'd like another rally in downtown Milwaukee to rev up the AA vote, which we need for November.

                      •  Exactly. You are going to get good turnout (0+ / 0-)

                        among Madison students, anyway.  So the rallies ought to be near other campuses, proven in the recent past to be pivotal to state Dems when they notice at all the campus towns up north, to the west, etc.  I would count on that more than AA vote turnout this time.

                        "Let all the dreamers wake the nation." -- Carly Simon

                        by Cream City on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 08:53:43 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

          •  Again: evidence for this conclusion? n/t (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            fladem, Willa Rogers, gardnerjf

            "I trust that you will continue to let me and other Democrats know when you believe we are screwing up." - Barack Obama

            by GreenSooner on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 09:46:00 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Toche given our last exchange (0+ / 0-)

              Obama's approval rating among Independents in Wisconsin is 39-54.  So that suggests that seperating yourself from Obama would not necessarily be a negative thing among Independents. In fact, Feingold's numbers are just barely better among independents than Obama's are (40-52).

              The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

              by fladem on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 09:59:05 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Is what possible? (4+ / 0-)

        Did you read the whole diary? Obama`s stats in Wisconsin have flipped since his election.His approval ratings are now only 41%. Why do you assume Feingold is down in the polls because of his principled progressive views. Could you entertain the thought that he is down in the polls (like Obama is)because of the Dems lack of enthusiasm for Obama`s policies?

        •  Welcome to the Hippie Punching Narrative (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DocbytheBay, Willa Rogers, gardnerjf

          No prisoners will be taken in the post-election civil war over whose fault the losses were.

          This is just a preview.

          "I trust that you will continue to let me and other Democrats know when you believe we are screwing up." - Barack Obama

          by GreenSooner on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 09:48:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It'll be case by case - all elections are local (0+ / 0-)

            In Feingold's case, since he has repeatedly voted against the administration because bills were insufficiently progressive, it stands to reason he has lost support in the center.

            Nationwide, the unenthusiastic base makes sense. It does not make sense for Feingold.

            In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

            by blue aardvark on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 11:53:25 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  So which voters has he lost? (0+ / 0-)

          His positive / negative numbers have worsened.

          Which voters, that previously supported him, have stopped doing so?

          The progressives? Do they think Johnson is going to be a liberal?
          Or the voters who think he should support the President?

          The answer is staring you in the face. It's not hippie punching to point out that he's losing support from the center, not the left.

          In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

          by blue aardvark on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 11:51:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Living in Misery (0+ / 0-)

        I can tell ya that his ranking of one below our junior Scared Shitless senator is telling.  

        If he loses, she can expect the same treatment in 2 years.  She might dodge a proverbial electoral bullet in a presidential election year.

        I know that I'm one of those people who doesn't have a purity test but sure as shit doesn't want a Dem Senator like McCaskill...or it seems Feingold.

        Sheesh, damned if you do, damned if you don't.  We want better Dems and yet, here we are pulling our hair out over the prospect of losing any Dems.

        "I'm not writing to make conservatives happy. I want them to hate my opinions. I'm not interested in debating them. I want to stop them." - Steve Gilliard

        by grog on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 10:00:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  McKaskill and Lincoln vote against fucking War? (0+ / 0-)

        Agricultural hemp is "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs."

        by ben masel on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 06:35:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Here is what makes these numbers even worse (0+ / 0-)

      unemployment in Wisconsin is 7.9%, far lower than the National average, though it was at 4.3% in 2007.

      The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

      by fladem on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 09:23:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So unemployment has nearly doubled since 2007 (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cream City, DocbytheBay

        That must feel pretty bad on the ground.

        "I trust that you will continue to let me and other Democrats know when you believe we are screwing up." - Barack Obama

        by GreenSooner on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 09:48:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That may be it (0+ / 0-)

          Though it is down a full point from 2009.  If i had time I would dump all of this into a sheet and run a regression to see if it turned up anything.  It might show that the change is more important than the level.

          But I don't the time.

          The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

          by fladem on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 09:53:44 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  It is over 20% in Dem strongholds (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DocbytheBay

        such as the (African American) inner city of Milwaukee -- and even worse in (primarily white) Janesville, Feingold's hometown.  And unemployment is bad in other traditionally Dem areas, too -- in part because Feingold and other Wisconsin pols are too principled or too "maverick" to go for "pork," so the state is low in getting fed funds back to the people.

        "Let all the dreamers wake the nation." -- Carly Simon

        by Cream City on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 09:58:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Russ is ONLY one who doesn't do pork, (0+ / 0-)

          and Kohl doing nothing but has covered for him in the past.

          Agricultural hemp is "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs."

          by ben masel on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 06:44:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I know, and what I'm saying is (0+ / 0-)

            that a little pork for Wisconsin, a little bending on this one by Feingold, could help.

            As for Kohl, you know that we have the same opinion!

            "Let all the dreamers wake the nation." -- Carly Simon

            by Cream City on Tue Sep 21, 2010 at 08:38:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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