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View Diary: [UPDATE: Rhee to Newark?] Why, I didn't know Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg was an education expert! (63 comments)

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  •  Well the experts have not done a cracker jack (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ctexrep

    job on education.  The education system has been in a long slow decline.  I'm all in favor of trying different techniques in hopes of restoring America's once great education system.  I see nothing wrong with challenging the status quo.   There may be a better way of doing things.

    I don't belong to an organized party, I'm a democrat.

    by thestructureguy on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 10:38:28 AM PDT

    •  because (7+ / 0-)

      not one person is addressing the real problems of poverty and family life in Newark and other cities like it. Until you fix those things, you're going to have a hard time correcting any problems with the educational system.

      I want a unicorn that shits rainbows. -5.75, -4.72

      by TheGreatLeapForward on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 10:40:56 AM PDT

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    •  What evidence is there for this? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      happymisanthropy

      The education system has been in a long slow decline.

      Please control for economic factors.

    •  The problem with this statement... (8+ / 0-)

      I'm all in favor of trying different techniques in hopes of restoring America's once great education system.

      ...is that every single "different technique" the Education Deform crowd wants to try has been proven not to work. For all their talk about being "evidence-based," supporters of privatization and anti-professionalism measures like charter schools, merit pay, and high-stakes standardized testing have to ignore an increasing amount of evidence suggesting that not one of those things is actually effective in improving education.

      Why not give the reins for education policy to the real experts - the teachers who spend every day actually doing the work of education? The last thing our educational system needs is more know-nothing billionaires with massive amounts of money to devote to hairbrained and proven-ineffective "reforms" screwing it up.

      What have you done for DC statehood today? Call your Rep and Senators and demand action.

      by mistersite on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 10:50:32 AM PDT

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      •  What charter schools amount to (0+ / 0-)

        is an experiment on poor children. No idea if the experiment will work. But if it doesn't, then what chance do those children have?

        I want a unicorn that shits rainbows. -5.75, -4.72

        by TheGreatLeapForward on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 10:53:01 AM PDT

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        •  Sure there is. (6+ / 0-)

          No idea if the experiment will work.

          Every day brings new evidence that except in a few exceptional cases, the experiment doesn't work. Charter schools aren't unproven; they're proven to be ineffective.

          What have you done for DC statehood today? Call your Rep and Senators and demand action.

          by mistersite on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 10:54:57 AM PDT

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          •  well (0+ / 0-)

            ya got me there!

            I want a unicorn that shits rainbows. -5.75, -4.72

            by TheGreatLeapForward on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 10:59:13 AM PDT

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          •  Charter schools (5+ / 0-)

            I know that in Newark and Trenton, NJ, their test scores are worse than the "regular" schools.  All it is is an excuse to bust the union and to save money.

            If the really want to do something in those areas, magnet schools, like the Bronx High School of Science or Central High in Philadelphia, would an attractive alternative.  But their goal is to privatize the system as much as they can.

            "I've never believed that government's role is to create jobs . . . So this week, I've proposed a six year infrastructure plan."

            by Paleo on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 10:59:31 AM PDT

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            •  Magnet schools ftw! (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              TheGreatLeapForward

              I'm a product of one of the original magnet schools.  My parents were too poor to send me to a private school, and the local public school wasn't providing me the opportunities I needed.  (I got straight As, but I was soooo bored.)

              My classmates were mostly just like me.  We were students that recognized that we wanted to attend a school that challenged us, that didn't have daily fights, and that could give us an enriched, specialized curriculum.  We had no sports budget - that money went to the dance studios, the art studios, and music programs.

              Conservatives: They love America. They hate actual Americans.

              by catwho on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 12:04:59 PM PDT

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          •  Citations needs. That certainly is not the case (0+ / 0-)

            in Massachusetts.

            Always make new mistakes - Esther Dyson

            by RandomActsOfReason on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 11:06:24 PM PDT

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        •  How about neighborhood schools, with like (3+ / 0-)

          books and supplies?  That might work and it is a lot cheaper than funding the Charter movement.

          I find it so funny that people think the Charter movement/coporate merit pay/anti-union crowd is "challenging the status quo".  That crowd IS the status quo.  These reformers are not coming from nowhere.  They're billionaires who want to take the same approach they reformed labor markets with to education.  How'd that work out for the middle class?  

          Medicare for All is Fiscal Responsibility

          by masslib on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 12:12:18 PM PDT

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          •  there seems to be a misconception (3+ / 0-)

            that charter schools are somehow cheaper than public schools. The charter school I worked in had no library, but was able to hire six-figure consultants to determine and implement curriculum. And one of them had been found guilty of fraud at her last public school job!

            There is virtually no oversight of charter schools anywhere.

            I want a unicorn that shits rainbows. -5.75, -4.72

            by TheGreatLeapForward on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 12:14:49 PM PDT

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        •  Nonsense (0+ / 0-)

          Charter schools are not "an experiment on poor children". What is the source for that generalization?

          I lived in Massachusetts for years. Charter schools there are nonprofit public schools, and, since, unlike public schools, the state does not pay any infrastructure or capital expenses, only a per child allowance (while reimbursing public schools for the loss of income), most of them start off in the more affluent communities.

          In many cases, the hostility of the local public school district and/or superintendent leads, in the first years, to the schools recruiting students from surrounding, less affluent communities, whose parents are eager to benefit from the smaller classrooms, higher teacher to student ratios, overqualified staff and freedom to innovate and let students be creative - while still being subject to the same standards, expectations (and, in the case of Massachusetts, the same onerous standardized testing) as the non-charter public schools.

          Over time, local parents begin to fight to get their own children into the charter schools, and, eventually, students from other districts can no longer be accommodated (by law, charter schools in MA, just like other public schools, must accept students in their district first - by lottery, if the number of students exceeds the seat. Charters are required to take any student, and provide for their special needs. Since they often tend to do so better than the no-charter counterparts (including the private schools in the district), many charters end up with a larger proportion of special needs students - and they happily take on that responsibility.

          Charter schools in MA are typically started by devoted parents and/or teachers who want to do more for children, but who are hampered in the regular public school system by traditional bureaucracy, lack of community support, and fear of change.

          The intent of these schools is to provide a means to explore and identify best practices, which can then be shared with traditional public schools. In many cases, that has occurred, and the general public school system has benefited. In other cases, resistance from the district has produced unnecessary tension between charter and non charter public schools, and lessons have not been successfully transferred.

          Your knowledge of charter schools seems limited to the kind of right-wing-driven for-profit schools that took over the New Orleans system after Katrina. That is not what the charter school movement is as a whole, nor what it's nature is nation-wide.

          Always make new mistakes - Esther Dyson

          by RandomActsOfReason on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 11:05:56 PM PDT

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    •  education system has been in a long slow decline (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pontechango, happymisanthropy

      And your evidence for that is?

      "I've never believed that government's role is to create jobs . . . So this week, I've proposed a six year infrastructure plan."

      by Paleo on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 10:54:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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