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  •  I read just fine (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AndrewR9

    You, however, didn't put enough thought into your answer.

    There are 50 states. Each gets 2 Senators.

    Find 26 states that are "radically left-wing liberal", or even "moderate". NAME THEM.

    Go ahead. I'll wait.

    Or, if you'd prefer, find a way around the tyranny of the majority that the Senate represents.

    I'm looking for answers. Give us one, oh great reader and writer.

    "Doing My Part to Piss Off the Religious Right" - A sign held by a 10-year old boy on 9-24-05

    by Timbuk3 on Tue Oct 05, 2010 at 09:48:45 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Typo (0+ / 0-)

      "Tyranny of the minority".

      Oops.

      The point being, if you stand for the rule of law you have to understand that the Senate gets a vote. It's not all what I want. It's not all what you want. It's not all what Obama wants.

      PROVE that Obama would have vetoed any of the bills that the House passed and the Senate killed.

      Seriously, if you're not willing to live in reality I'll quickly begin to wonder why you're worth my valuable time.

      "Doing My Part to Piss Off the Religious Right" - A sign held by a 10-year old boy on 9-24-05

      by Timbuk3 on Tue Oct 05, 2010 at 09:54:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Nice repetition of RW talking points. (0+ / 0-)

      "Radically left wing liberal", Well, Rush/Glen, whoever you are, that is a steaming pile of excrement.  Things that are popular and progressive like the PO and eliminating Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy shouldn't be that hard.  And the pres. should be able to lean on senators to get the votes he needs, if he wasn't so busy selling out the majority instead crying about "how difficult" it all is.

      The answers are there, you are unwilling to even TRY.  It's easier not to even bring things up for a vote, not ever press for them, and claim the votes weren't there rather than actually show leadership.

      Oh the irony of your "tyranny of the majority" when combined with your "oh great reader and writer."

      Every time I prepare to hold my nose to vote for a conservadem, someone like you reminds me why I shouldn't, so I put my fingers back on the keyboard and explain it.

      This election is like going into a job interview with a resume that only says how much the other candidates suck.

      by Celtic Pugilist on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 06:53:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Couldn't name the states? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AndrewR9

        This is no surprise.

        "Doing My Part to Piss Off the Religious Right" - A sign held by a 10-year old boy on 9-24-05

        by Timbuk3 on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 07:56:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Your straw is on fire. eom (0+ / 0-)

          This election is like going into a job interview with a resume that only says how much the other candidates suck.

          by Celtic Pugilist on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 08:10:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You make absolutely no sense (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AndrewR9

            The only thing that's clear is that you're unwilling to do anything to further a progressive agenda. All you want to do is complain.

            Name the 26 states, no, make that 30 states that will send a filibuster-proof progressive majority to the Senate.

            If you continue to refuse to do that and insist that it's not the Senate but Obama who's responsible for any disappointment then I'll leave it to the readers to determine who's speaking in "RW talking points".

            "Doing My Part to Piss Off the Religious Right" - A sign held by a 10-year old boy on 9-24-05

            by Timbuk3 on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 08:28:05 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Adding more straw/lies doesn't help! (0+ / 0-)

              Can you try being intellectually honest for a change?  It is BOTH. I've said BOTH from the start while you keep saying that I "insist that it's not the Senate but Obama".  That is blatant lie from you!

              When you can PROVE that the votes weren't there and could not be gotten by united action of Dem leadership, then I will concede the point.  So far, none of the conservadem/Obama defenders has been able to do that.  But Obama did not lead on PO.  So I can say with 100% accuracy that it might have been possible to get the votes, and with equal accuracy state that you cannot prove that the votes could not be had without actually trying and bringing it up for a vote.  You are taking an absolute position.  I am not.

              (It probably could have passed through reconciliation...without the need for 60 votes.)

              There is a big difference between not voting for something, versus not even letting your own party vote on something.  I can accept conservative members of the caucus voting against an amendment that has major party backing.  I cannot accept that they will not allow their own party's agenda to even come up for a vote and go unpunished.  That is simply sabotage and they should get a boot in the ass for it.  Plus the president and party leadership should make it clear that the boot is coming.  That's the difference between a pathetically weak, excuse-ridden party, and one that accomplishes their agenda.

              All you want to do is complain.

              No, I want to be able to cheer progress.  Unfortunatley, that isn't happening.  Instead we get served more of this conservative bullshit.  Serve me conservative shit and I will complain, LOUDLY, I don't care who the chef is.  I fought against it through the Bush years, and I still am.  Stick a "D" on conservative approaches and they are still conservative.

              This election is like going into a job interview with a resume that only says how much the other candidates suck.

              by Celtic Pugilist on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 09:06:56 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Your entire argument is based on a falsehood (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                AndrewR9

                This:

                I can say with 100% accuracy that it might have been possible to get the votes.

                ...is untrue.

                If it's NOT untrue, please name the 60 votes. Hell, name the 51 votes to pass it by reconciliation.

                If you'd prefer, I can name 41 lock-step voting Republicans, plus LIEberman, Landrieu, Pryor, Lincoln, Nelson, Baucus, Conrad, Feinstein, Bayh, and Bingaman. Cantwell, Carper, Bayh, and possibly Bill Nelson may have supported the PO in a cloture vote, but wouldn't have supported passing it by reconciliation.

                The fact is, once Scott Brown was elected the Senate bill that had already passed was the best we were going to get. That bill didn't contain a public option because 40 Republicans and a host of Democrats didn't support a public option.

                NOTHING Obama, or anyone else, could have done would have changed their minds. There was also not enough support to pass a public option by reconciliation.

                So, you accuse me of making straw man arguments by making them yourself?

                "We didn't get a public option" is a horse-shit reason to hand control of the congress over to the GOP.

                In primaries we vote for the best candidate we can. In the general election "When it comes to voting -- when we only have two choices -- you gotta grow up and realize there's a big difference between a disappointing friend and a deadly enemy."

                I'm really tired of your arrogance and insults. I'm now through with you.

                "Doing My Part to Piss Off the Religious Right" - A sign held by a 10-year old boy on 9-24-05

                by Timbuk3 on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 09:30:53 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You are wrong again, yours is false (0+ / 0-)

                  I don't have to prove what was not even tried!  You are employing circular logic.  You require proof of a hypothetical.  That is a massive logical fallacy.  It can't be proven or disproven because it was never even tried.  To claim "nothing could have changed their mind is "horse-shit."  You can't prove that a filibuster would have even held--had there even been a real filibuster.  

                  There are many things that have been believed to be unlikely, but were proven possible.  "Yes we can" is a reflection of that.  With popular opinion and momentum on your side it is indeed possible to get votes (and we had that until the end of Summer)  It requires united leadership, but it is possible.   I voted for "yes we can," not "we won't even try."  

                  Instead of going out and promoting it and giving the majority of the nation what they then supported, they held it underwater until it drowned.  In the process they nearly killed off health insurance reform altogether--giving all the momentum to the tea baggers instead.

                  I'm really tired of your arrogance and insults. I'm now through with you.

                  Thank, God!  I feel the exact same way about you.  Try your circular logic on someone gullible.

                  Maybe I can hold my nose long enough to vote for a conservative Dem Senate candidate...if you keep talking I won't be able to, that's for sure.  Conservatives aren't my friends, regardless of whether they tattoo a "D" on their foreheads.  I'm not even sure that they are the "enemy of my enemy" much of the time.  Too often they appear to be the ally of my enemy.

                  This election is like going into a job interview with a resume that only says how much the other candidates suck.

                  by Celtic Pugilist on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 10:09:13 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

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