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View Diary: If We Lose, We Will Have Only Ourselves To Blame – 7 ideas for outreach (64 comments)

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  •  As I've said, it's an easier task for Republicans (0+ / 0-)

    because they are selling what the voters want to buy.  To deny this simple fact is being unrealistic.

    "Because I am a river to my people."

    by lordcopper on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 07:01:59 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  People buy from the best salesman. Period. (0+ / 0-)

      What you're saying is that the Dems might as well give it up, because people are just generally bad. And you call that reality?

      While it's always possible to gain some support by appealing to people's bigotry, fears, and jingoism, the fact is that most people agree with the Democratic Party on nearly all issues. That being the case, it's the Party's failure to market itself that lies at the root of their electoral shortcomings. Either you're for democracy or you're not. You, apparently, are not. But that doesn't change reality.

      •  I disagree , but I don't have time (0+ / 0-)

        to argue all the reasons I think you're wrong.  I'll simply make the observation that the Democratic Party is diverse, and too undisciplined to stick to a central theme to market itself.  Try that reality on for size.

        "Because I am a river to my people."

        by lordcopper on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 02:31:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But the president could. If he could be bothered. (0+ / 0-)
          •  The POTUS (when the Democrats hold the WH) (0+ / 0-)

            has absolutely no control over his party.  That is the problem with the Democratic Party in a nutshell.

            "Because I am a river to my people."

            by lordcopper on Wed Oct 06, 2010 at 05:59:12 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  "Absolutely no control?" That's hyperbolic. (0+ / 0-)

              As the most famous Democrat, the biggest fundraiser, and the man with the most power to affect policy and the execution of it by the Executive branch, it's absurd to say he has no control over the Party.

              Besides which, he has control over himself. He can command enormous amounts of press coverage whenever he wants to say whatever he wants. He can direct the national conversation, frame the political debate.

              •  The POTUS has powers granted by the Constitution, (0+ / 0-)

                but no pwer to compel compliance with his wishes.  You acknowledge as much when you reference press coverage.  The power to persuade presumes a rational audience.  Try reasoning with a mob sometime, you'll find it to be an unproductive experience.

                "Because I am a river to my people."

                by lordcopper on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 07:29:27 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You're wrong about everything! (0+ / 0-)

                  "The power to persuade presumes a rational audience."
                  Preposterous! No it doesn't! Almost all advertising is based on emotion, not reason. Most persuasive marketing is geared toward feelings, not reason. Your assertion is just flat false.

                  The Prez has "no pwer to compel compliance with his wishes."
                  He certainly has the power to issue executive orders and to compel compliance to those. And he certainly has enormous de facto power just by virtue of his position as head of state and head of the party, as I described it.

                  Your arguments are just silly and unrealistic.

                  •  Advertisng? That might be your problem. (0+ / 0-)

                    I'm speaking of communication.  Communication of complex issues that might be counterintuitive to an undereducated public that's feeling nervous about the future.  You're going to communicate complex issue in 30 seconds, or on a bumper sticker?  The Republicans do that because their only goal is to stop change by fear, race baiting, distortion, or flat out lying.

                    Give me one example of an executive order the POTUS could issue that would solve any problem confronting this country.  You see, new initiatives have to be paid for, and/or have the force of law behind them.  I've tried to have a meaningful conversation with you, but you're talking to me about fucking advertising.  No thanks.

                    "Because I am a river to my people."

                    by lordcopper on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 04:13:08 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You're just a fool if you think politics (0+ / 0-)

                      has anything to do with "communication of complex issues that might be counterintuitive to an undereducated public." It doesn't. Never has, never will. And it's also false that Republicans' "only goal is to stop change by fear, race baiting, distortion, or flat out lying." They want plenty of changes: overturn Roe v. Wade; dismantle Social Security; change the citizenship by birth provision; gut the Civil Rights Act; institute religious education in public schools; eliminate progressive income tax--and so on.

                      You shift the focus every time I make a point that completely refutes one of your ridiculous assertions.

                      And as for examples of an executive order that changed problems confronting the country, how about the Emancipation Proclamation? How about if Obama directed the Commerce Department to expand the small business loan program to enable easier access to credit, bypassing the banks? Or direct the Justice Department to pursue investigation of the Bush/Cheney lies that got us into Iraq, or Cheney's secret negotiations with oil executives to frame energy policy? Just off the top of my head. The president sets the agenda for every excecutive department.

                    •  Your series of preposterous statements: (0+ / 0-)

                      "Even with new strategies it will take an investment in time (years) to persuade the electorate."

                      "The real problem is the voters."

                      "As I've said, it's an easier task for Republicans because they are selling what the voters want to buy."

                      "The POTUS (when the Democrats hold the WH) has absolutely no control over his party."

                      "The power to persuade presumes a rational audience."

                      "[The Prez has] "no pwer to compel compliance with his wishes."

                      What these statements add up to is someone who doesn't believe in democracy, who has no idea what's required to win elections or what motivates people to vote the way they do, and who has little or no idea of the political resources available to a President. Oh, and for the record, the thread started with a discussion about marketing.

                      I've got news for you. Elections ARE exercises in marketing. And in fact, most people do want to buy the product Democrats have to offer--every poll shows that most people support the Democratic position on almost every issue. The Dems just don't know how to sell it. It has nothing, nothing, nothing to do with "Communication of complex issues." It has to do with keeping it simple.

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