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View Diary: Attempted Death of a Democracy - Israel shoots itself.... (395 comments)

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  •  And that's a bad concept (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Uberbah

    "A land for a people for a people without a land."

    •  Where do I say this: (4+ / 0-)
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      arielle, debedb, thebluecrayon, volleyboy1

      "A land for a people for a people without a land."

      since you are presumably attributing that quote to me?

      The Hope of 2,000 years, To be a free people in our land - Hatikvah

      by Mets102 on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:18:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  your sig (0+ / 0-)

        The Hope of 2,000 years, To be a free people in our land

        •  You are quite mistaken (4+ / 0-)
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          JNEREBEL, arielle, volleyboy1, Mets102

          And it's a shame you equate the two.

        •  And when it says... (1+ / 0-)
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          volleyboy1

          Artzeinu (our land), it necessarily implies that we do have a land.  The Jewish community in the Land of Israel is the oldest continuous Jewish community in the world, dating back well over 3,000 years.  We've always had a land.  Just because we spent 1,978 years in exile does not mean that we didn't.

          The Hope of 2,000 years, To be a free people in our land - Hatikvah

          by Mets102 on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:35:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  and for everyone else (3+ / 0-)
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            capelza, corvo, protectspice

            who was dispossessed to hell with them? Why no right of return for the indigenous people? Why can't Palestinians return?  (rhetorical question, I know the answer).

            •  Er, but isn't that the diarist's point? (1+ / 0-)
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              capelza

              That the State of Israel and the concept of Israel are necessarily separate? The state must acknowledge the complex political situation of its inhabitants—of all religions and ethnicities—and serve their interests, while not infringing on the concept of Israel, the ancient homeland of the Jewish people.

              Of course, we can talk all day about how successful (or unsuccessful) the state of Israel has been in serving its Arab population... but this diary is drawing a line in the sand that says "Enough is enough!"

              •  he's not the diarist (5+ / 0-)
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                Pesto, zannie, capelza, corvo, protectspice

                and he was talking about some right to return for people not even associated with the land--there are Jews "returning" just by virtue of the fact that they are Jewish and yet the people who were ethnically cleansed from their land by the Israelis in 1948 cannot return?

              •  And if your'e talking about some (4+ / 0-)

                biblical sense of an ancient kingdom, then why don't we all challenge some ancient homeland...heck we could go back quite a ways. That is a ridiculous notion and is part of the reason the settlers think they can just steal people's homes..it reinforces that ridiculous claim.

                •  Just the Opposite (1+ / 0-)
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                  volleyboy1

                  This idea that there are two Israels, the political entity and the religious one, is a healthy mentality that Israel didn't have in 1948. Think of it this way: The state is reality, the concept is the dream. Acknowledging that these are necessarily separate things is exactly what's needed. Dreams have to work in reality.

                  Challenging Israel's creation in 1948 isn't helpful... We have to focus on what can be done within the scope of diplomacy. Rolling back the clock by 60 years isn't an option.

                  Israel has to make concessions that recognize that their dream will never replace reality, and Palestinians and anti-Zionists have to concede that it's too late to undo 60 years of history.

                  There are no peaceful alternatives to that.

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