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  •  You bet I'm complaining. I think I'll sue. (12+ / 0-)

    I'd sue for economic and political malpractice if I could.  I'd sue the guy for following 19th century ideas in the 21st century.  I'd sue him for failing to act aggressively when all disinterested economic advice suggested the stimulus needed to be at least twice as large as the one he gave the patient.  I'd sue him for failing to organize the network of grassroots supporters needed to sustain the electoral majority needed to sustain tax and debt financed stimulus spending.   I'd sue him for failure to present the progressive case, the case for massive government stimulus, the case for a serious role for government in the economy, to the American people.

    He's turned out to be a physician's assistant when we needed a doctor.  Unfortunately the doctors he's working for are 19th century quacks, who control the medical societies and the conventional wisdom, and are quick to recommend leaches and bleeding, when we actually need modern medicine.  

    If those same doctors didn't own the courts, I'd win my suit too.

    •  Who would have been a better doctor for this (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      progressivebadger

      patient. Give me your best referral? One who was willing to accept the patient in 2008?

      Get 10 people you know to commit to vote Democratic on November 2; and ask them to each seek 10.

      by Blogvirgin on Sun Oct 10, 2010 at 05:40:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  As we say to teenagers... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RFK Lives, Jim P

        who say "everybody does it"... if all your friends jumped off a roof, would you do it too?  

        Stupidity is still stupid, even if everyone in the crowd is stupid.  It doesn't get smarter just because everyone agrees that cautiousness and obliviousness to modern economic theory is the easy path.

        •  You did not answer the question. Nice dance, no (0+ / 0-)

          dice. Who among the candidates who were running for President in 2008 would have been a better President than President Obama?  This is a direct and simple question. Can you answer it or will you give me another response filled with fantasy and what ifs?

          Get 10 people you know to commit to vote Democratic on November 2; and ask them to each seek 10.

          by Blogvirgin on Sun Oct 10, 2010 at 06:10:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Hey, you didn't answer my question either (4+ / 0-)

            Why do only your questions get answers?  Or don't bother, since like yours, we know each other's answers already.

            Of COURSE we are trapped with our incompetent doctor.  We all know the alternative doctors were  even worse, and that he's got tenure.  He knows that, and he knows that he doesn't even have to be competent because he is after all more competent than most of the other doctors in town.  

            But let's not pretend that our lack of choice means that we have a competent doctor.  We just have a doctor who sucks less than most of the readily available alternatives.  The fact that you seem to think that proves something just shows me how lost you really are!

            Why aren't we organizing to push him to at least bring on board people who have read modern texts and have a sense of what the modern standard of practice really is?

            The conventional pooh bahs twaddle on endlessly about their being (or having been) no alternatives and how this is the best we can do and how maybe someday the patient will get better. If that sort of thinking makes you happy you are welcome to it.  Enjoy yourself.  Really.  Laisse le bon temps roule. One thing you can count on with that kind of rhetorical approach is more of the same... and apparently that's good enough for you.

            I'm not particularly interested in Obama's success or failure, or at least not only in that.  I'm interested in our society's and our nation's success or failure.  If things can get better on Obama's foundations I'm all for it.  Unfortunately, the weight of scientific evidence suggests that they will not.  If things have to get worse in order to organize the political activity needed to get better, let the flood come.  

            I doubt Obama has built a foundation that will last (hope I'm wrong) so I'm a little indifferent to him and his success as an individual politician (or doctor if we must continue the metaphor).  

            Old fashioned patients (like you?) accepted whatever their doctor told them.  Modern patients research the issue and bring proposed treatments to their physician.  The progressive left is doing that, but the old fuddy wall street docs don't want to hear about ideas brought by the patients.

            The one thing I can't bear is justifiers of an unacceptable status quo, and justifiers of the political and economic malpractice that we have been subjected too by the Republican and ConservaDem party.  To be enthusiastic about what has been done, even to be enthusiastic about it on the grounds of "what choice do we have?" is to put yourself in moral and political universe that I want no part of.

            But really, if you like it so much enjoy it while it lasts!  Lots of Americans are feeling pretty sold out, but I'm glad it's working for you.

            •  It is working for me, and for many others (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Onomastic

              who actually live in the real world and not some fantasy.  There is no Superman, there are only real people.  

              Those of us who have seen more than one campaign and have lived and worked under more than one President recognize that is a good man dealing with very difficult, very complex problems.  A man who has done more for this country in 22 months than the last four no six Presidents did in eight years, and that fact is also recognized by over 238 Presidental scholars who recently rated this President among our best, 15 and rising.

              Do you think you know more than they do?  What are your credentials?  Their opinions are devolved from research and historical perspective and yours comes from where????

              Too bad you are not as knowledgeable as they are and cannot appreciate this President for who he is and what he has done.

              Get 10 people you know to commit to vote Democratic on November 2; and ask them to each seek 10.

              by Blogvirgin on Sun Oct 10, 2010 at 07:48:54 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Just so you know, in a medical lawsuit you have (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Onomastic

      to prove the doctor did not follow standard medical practice or you lose. Based upon your own comment, you lose.  

      Get 10 people you know to commit to vote Democratic on November 2; and ask them to each seek 10.

      by Blogvirgin on Sun Oct 10, 2010 at 05:43:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I could win any case (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RFK Lives

        ...if the court wasn't owned by the medical society, and if I proved that the doctor was practicing to a standard of medicine that had been superseded by widely known and proven techniques that do work.

        Following 19th century medical standards when proven 21st century medical techniques are available is no defense in court... and if it is, it tells you about the corruption of the courts, not about what is the ethical thing for the doctor to do.

      •  Standard medical practice is a matter of opinion. (0+ / 0-)

        And that opinion lies solely with--you guessed it--the American Medical Association.

        Doesn't matter what the science says.  If the AMA says it's OK, then it's OK, even if research proves that other practices are more beneficial.  Witness our abysmally high C-section rates in this country despite no evidence they prevent cerebral palsy and plenty of evidence they increase maternal and neonatal mortality.

        Likewise.  If the politicians say they're doing the best they can do, who are we to argue.  The politicians get to set the standards for how well they're doing, and if we have any objections, too bad for us.  Never mind we're the ones who get hurt when they screw up.

        •  Huh? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Jim P

          The AMA has upheld standards of practice inconsistent with science for years.... for what that is worth.   That's just my point.   It's a metaphor, not a perfect analogy!

          If the politicians say they're doing the best they can do, who are we to argue.

          If you believe that you have no business here, no business voting, and no role to play in a democracy.

    •  Hmmmm..... (0+ / 0-)

      You think it's bad now?  
      You want to sue the doctor?
      Suppose you had the other 'doctor' and his brilliant accomplice, who were up for the job in '08?  That thought really makes me sick.
      Take a breath.  Rome wasn't built in a day, nor can all the ills of this country be 'cured' in less than 2 years.
      It will likely get worse before it gets better.
      But don't be so quick to sue.

      I think, therefore I am........................... Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose AKA Engine Nighthawk - don't even ask!

      by Lilyvt on Sun Oct 10, 2010 at 05:59:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Can we quit with the outdated metaphors (0+ / 0-)

      I'll do you one better.  We don't need to dismiss something on the grounds of how new an idea it is.  We ought to accept or dismiss its merits, instead, on whether it is empirically supported.

      Believe it or not, they have found a good use for leeches in modern medicine:  keeping circulation up in a reattached limb, reducing the likelihood it will have to be amputated.

      Likewise.  Democrats should not dismiss an idea just because it was presented a hundred years ago or because Republicans present it now.  Republicans should not dismiss an idea just because a Democratic politician is championing it.

      This is what's wrong with this country.  People want to keep up appearances and be fashionable.  I give half a damn about fashion.  I want substance.

      •  Silly metaphors are silly (0+ / 0-)

        But this one works pretty well.

        The use of leeches is real, but it is not integral to modern medical practice, so I think my use of the term makes the correct point.  

        Your complaint truly makes no sense to me.  I begin with a class based analysis of politics, combined with modern economic theory.

        I'm not dismissing anything because it is old or new, or Democratic or Republican.   But some ideas and structural relationships do persist across centuries, and one of those is the effort of capital to control the political process and make it do its bidding.   That's not a very fashionable statement, but it is the deep truth that we've witnessed play out under Obama. Capital (aka Wall Street) owns his administration, and business interests own the Congress.  From this, much else flows.

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