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View Diary: Right-wing propoganda on Daily Kos (99 comments)

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  •  So strange that we have such a hard time... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sidnora

    pushing an idea that 3/4 of doctors seem to support (well, 63% -- the other 10% want single payer).

    I mean, with so many of the key players brought to the table, you'd think they might want to utilize all those doctors in favor of a public insurance option. Maybe have them in a few multi-million dollar ad campaigns to push for an idea that is already accepted by majorities (okay, in one case just a plurality) in at least four polls. At least one poll had a plurality of Republicans agreeing.

    Ben Nelson and any other Blue Dog would've been destroyed by the Republican Primary electorate if they were stupid enough to jump ship. Threatening them is as easy as letting them know they'll be fighting the next electoral battle on their own (sorry Blanche and Ben! No help from the DNC this time!) The President would've had every single one of us donating to Joe Lieberman's next primary opponent.

    We lost the Public Option because C-SPAN wasn't there to watch, as they bargained it away to the Hospital owners (and for what? the right to give them tens of millions more patients with a reliable payer behind them?) Anything else you're hearing is the kind of bullshit that is regularly dismissed as political pandering or papering over the truth when done by any other President.

    •  Total bullshit... (0+ / 0-)

      Every committee hearing was on CSPAN and I watched most of them...this is the way representative government works...you compromise with people you disagree with...

      There was never the voted for a PO because most PO advocates were pretty out of the closet that they really wanted SP but this was a good stepping stone...

      Regardless of public opinion, there was never the votes for SP so as soon as PO was associated with SP it was DOA...

      Obama - Change I still believe in

      by dvogel001 on Sun Oct 10, 2010 at 03:40:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Love it. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sidnora

        Ah yes, the Committee Hearings. Where the real work is done. Where Senators and Representatives get down to brass tacks and hash out the real compromises and agree on each specific substantive measure.

        So strange that anyone was ever left wondering what bill we'd end up with, since all those deals were hashed out in Committee Hearings and nowhere else.

        Don't tell anyone (I'm sure Conservatives have nooo idea) that the mandate is a stepping stone for the public option is a stepping stone for single payer, which evvvvveryone hates.

        Don't read the links, whatever you do!

        •  Yes that is where the deals... (0+ / 0-)

          between factions are formed primarily in committee...again basic civics 101...the details are worked on in the committees and then the full House/Senate takes up the bill with the ability to offer ammendments...

          But again...almost all of the committee hearings were televised so to say this was not done in the open without the ability to influence by the people is just poppycock...

          It was clear in the Healthcare summit in the Whitehouse towards the end of the bill that Republicans were in accordance with the overall goal of expanding coverage and ending insurance company abuses but had a philosophical issue with any bill that may possibly lead to SP...

          Obama - Change I still believe in

          by dvogel001 on Sun Oct 10, 2010 at 04:20:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  If you truly believe (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            2020adam

            that the bottom level at which policy decisions are made, and at which deals are cut, are Committee hearings... dear God. I don't even know where to begin to address such innocence.

            The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

            by sidnora on Sun Oct 10, 2010 at 03:09:49 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  So what are we supposed to... (0+ / 0-)

              put cameras in the cloak rooms...of course there are discussions outside of committee hearings...but that is where much of the sausage is made...

              I am not niave...but this has been the most open process of creating the sausage ever...

              Obama - Change I still believe in

              by dvogel001 on Sun Oct 10, 2010 at 03:31:52 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  No, we're not supposed to (0+ / 0-)

                expect cameras in cloakrooms. But that's where the deals get cut. Or even in private meetings in the White House...heavens!

                At least you admit that policy decisions are not made in committee hearings. While they are often edifying and newsworthy for the public, very little, if anything, that transpires in open committee hearings is unforeseen or unrehearsed. So don't go around claiming otherwise. That is naive at best, disingenuous at worst.

                The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

                by sidnora on Sun Oct 10, 2010 at 07:11:45 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I think it is disingenuous of you... (0+ / 0-)

                  to say that a lot of detailed discussions do not happen in the committee meetings and/or are not reported in the press for scrutiny...

                  To say that this has not been an open process is just sour grapes on your part because the result is not what you wanted...but in fact it has been a remakably open process...which BTW is why many people have a bad taste in their mouths because they saw right in the open all of the discussions regarding the compromises of creating legislation that is this far reaching...

                  It is incredibly niave of you to believe that legilsation of this magnitude will not have competing interests and constituencies that will come to compromises in order to get the legislation passed...that is called being reality based...

                  And for better or worse we saw it on the floor of congress, office of the POTUS, in the press as well as lobbyist press releases...it was all in the complete open.../peace

                  Obama - Change I still believe in

                  by dvogel001 on Sun Oct 10, 2010 at 09:21:27 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I'm glad for you (0+ / 0-)

                    that you are satisfied, it sounds, both with the process and the results.

                    I'm no purist, but I firmly believe that we could have done better. One thing I'll say you're right about, is that I wouldn't care that much about the process if we'd gotten better results. I'm very pragmatic that way.

                    But that doesn't negate the fact that closed processes were crucial for some of the less good outcomes. Most obvious case in point was the final push for the public option. That was simply the administration giving the more progressive congresscritters the opportunity to look good to their constituents, and the grassroots the opportunity to exhaust themselves, before moving on to the result that had been predetermined months before in closed-door meetings with the "stakeholders" (insurance and hospital companies).

                    Sorry if I seem cynical to you, but as I said, I've been doing this for a while.

                    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

                    by sidnora on Mon Oct 11, 2010 at 07:57:27 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Incredible, isn't it? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sidnora

              But, they did let the Press meet with Robert Gibbs during the negotiations, and he told us evvverything that happened behind closed doors, I promise.

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