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View Diary: Right-wing propoganda on Daily Kos (99 comments)

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  •  Yes that is where the deals... (0+ / 0-)

    between factions are formed primarily in committee...again basic civics 101...the details are worked on in the committees and then the full House/Senate takes up the bill with the ability to offer ammendments...

    But again...almost all of the committee hearings were televised so to say this was not done in the open without the ability to influence by the people is just poppycock...

    It was clear in the Healthcare summit in the Whitehouse towards the end of the bill that Republicans were in accordance with the overall goal of expanding coverage and ending insurance company abuses but had a philosophical issue with any bill that may possibly lead to SP...

    Obama - Change I still believe in

    by dvogel001 on Sun Oct 10, 2010 at 04:20:09 AM PDT

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    •  If you truly believe (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      that the bottom level at which policy decisions are made, and at which deals are cut, are Committee hearings... dear God. I don't even know where to begin to address such innocence.

      The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

      by sidnora on Sun Oct 10, 2010 at 03:09:49 PM PDT

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      •  So what are we supposed to... (0+ / 0-)

        put cameras in the cloak rooms...of course there are discussions outside of committee hearings...but that is where much of the sausage is made...

        I am not niave...but this has been the most open process of creating the sausage ever...

        Obama - Change I still believe in

        by dvogel001 on Sun Oct 10, 2010 at 03:31:52 PM PDT

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        •  No, we're not supposed to (0+ / 0-)

          expect cameras in cloakrooms. But that's where the deals get cut. Or even in private meetings in the White House...heavens!

          At least you admit that policy decisions are not made in committee hearings. While they are often edifying and newsworthy for the public, very little, if anything, that transpires in open committee hearings is unforeseen or unrehearsed. So don't go around claiming otherwise. That is naive at best, disingenuous at worst.

          The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

          by sidnora on Sun Oct 10, 2010 at 07:11:45 PM PDT

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          •  I think it is disingenuous of you... (0+ / 0-)

            to say that a lot of detailed discussions do not happen in the committee meetings and/or are not reported in the press for scrutiny...

            To say that this has not been an open process is just sour grapes on your part because the result is not what you wanted...but in fact it has been a remakably open process...which BTW is why many people have a bad taste in their mouths because they saw right in the open all of the discussions regarding the compromises of creating legislation that is this far reaching...

            It is incredibly niave of you to believe that legilsation of this magnitude will not have competing interests and constituencies that will come to compromises in order to get the legislation passed...that is called being reality based...

            And for better or worse we saw it on the floor of congress, office of the POTUS, in the press as well as lobbyist press was all in the complete open.../peace

            Obama - Change I still believe in

            by dvogel001 on Sun Oct 10, 2010 at 09:21:27 PM PDT

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            •  I'm glad for you (0+ / 0-)

              that you are satisfied, it sounds, both with the process and the results.

              I'm no purist, but I firmly believe that we could have done better. One thing I'll say you're right about, is that I wouldn't care that much about the process if we'd gotten better results. I'm very pragmatic that way.

              But that doesn't negate the fact that closed processes were crucial for some of the less good outcomes. Most obvious case in point was the final push for the public option. That was simply the administration giving the more progressive congresscritters the opportunity to look good to their constituents, and the grassroots the opportunity to exhaust themselves, before moving on to the result that had been predetermined months before in closed-door meetings with the "stakeholders" (insurance and hospital companies).

              Sorry if I seem cynical to you, but as I said, I've been doing this for a while.

              The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

              by sidnora on Mon Oct 11, 2010 at 07:57:27 AM PDT

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      •  Incredible, isn't it? (1+ / 0-)
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        But, they did let the Press meet with Robert Gibbs during the negotiations, and he told us evvverything that happened behind closed doors, I promise.

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