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View Diary: Education: Manifesto versus Manifesto (113 comments)

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  •  I'm pretty sure (0+ / 0-)

    that private schools in the northern U.S. typically aren't unionized, either.  

    So instead of "unions," did you mean something else?  Because now you seem to be acknowledging that teachers unions do exist in the South.  And by "the South," did you mean to say just Mississippi and Alabama?  Because the South is, like, more than those two states.

    Just asking -- seems like your statement was, as I pointed out, factually incorrect.

    •  Do what I asked. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      slatsg, BMarshall, ladybug53

      Compare the South to the North, and don't juke the numbers by including bogus organizations like MEA while not including teachers at segregation academies.

      The point is that the North is far more unionized and performs better, not worse, academically.  The poorest performing schools in the country are not unionized; thus unions can't be the primary cause of poor performance.

      It you won't compare the actual unionization rates, then I'm calling bullshit on you.  

      I'm not a witch - I'm you.

      by Pierro Sraffa on Sat Oct 09, 2010 at 08:02:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ummmm.... (0+ / 0-) were the one who said there aren't teachers unions in the South, right?  I pointed out that statement was wrong (which it is, and which you don't seem to dispute).  Now you want me to "compare the actual unionization rates" (different issue than what I addressed) or you'll call "bullshit" on me?  I'm not sure what it means to be called bullshit on.  But even if I were inclined to look up and then report to you on unionization rates in the South, I wouldn't do it because I really, really want to find out what it means to be called bullshit on.  Please proceed -- I can't wait.

        By the way, your statement that the "poorest performing schools in the country are not unionized" also is incorrect.  Indianapolis's largest public school system is deemed to have the worst graduation rate in the country (sub-50%), among urban public schools at least, and it's fully unionized.  Indeed, its superintendent signed the "manifesto" in the WaPo.

        Keep making statements.  I enjoy pointing out their inaccuracy.

        •  The NEA affiliates in the south are NOT unions -- (1+ / 0-)
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          they are teacher associations, and their local chapters have no power to bargain or represent the teachers in employment issues.  They mainly offer liability coverage.  I've taught down here for 38 years -- having moved here from the northeast.  There are shocking differences between where I come from and where I now teach.  How I wish there were unions here!

        •  MS ranks last in education. (1+ / 0-)
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          Arkansas 49th.

          The poorest performing schools are in the South.  No collective bargaining.

          You can cherry pick a northern inner city school if you like.  I'll let you figure out if you're committing the fallacy of composition or its opposite.  

          Take your anti-worker, anti-union bullshit to RedState.

          I'm not a witch - I'm you.

          by Pierro Sraffa on Sat Oct 09, 2010 at 08:29:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  RedState? (0+ / 0-)

            Ha!  I'm neither anti-union nor anti-worker.  Nor is anything I've said.  I just don't like it when people make factually untrue statements here, like you did.

            And I'm not cherry picking from the North, either.  Detroit, St. Louis, Baltimore, Cleveland -- all poorly performing, unfortunately, and all in the North.  I wish it weren't so, but it is.  

            I'm pretty sure you're not in a position to tell me to go to RedState -- I'm something like 200,000 places ahead of you in line in this community.    

        •  Since you refuse to cite anything, I will (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          do it for you.  State employees are listed first, then teachers employed by the state.  The South is not unionized.  It performs the worst.

          Alabama Bargaining Prohibited Bargaining Prohibited
          Arizona Bargaining Prohibited Bargaining Prohibited
          Arkansas Bargaining Prohibited Bargaining Prohibited
          Georgia Allowed (No Strikes) Bargaining Prohibited
          Idaho Bargaining Prohibited Allowed (No Strikes)
          Kentucky Bargaining Prohibited Bargaining Prohibited
          Maryland Bargaining Prohibited Allowed (No Strikes)
          Mississippi Bargaining Prohibited Bargaining Prohibited
          Missouri Allowed (No Strikes) Bargaining Prohibited
          Nevada Bargaining Prohibited Allowed (No Strikes)
          North Carolina Bargaining Prohibited Bargaining Prohibited
          North Dakota Bargaining Prohibited Allowed (No Strikes)
          Oklahoma Bargaining Prohibited Allowed (No Strikes)
          South Carolina Bargaining Prohibited Bargaining Prohibited
          Tennessee Bargaining Prohibited Allowed (No Strikes)
          Texas Bargaining Prohibited Bargaining Prohibited
          Utah Bargaining Prohibited Allowed  
          Virginia Bargaining Prohibited Bargaining Prohibited
          West Virginia Bargaining Prohibited Bargaining Prohibited
          Wyoming Bargaining Prohibited Bargaining Prohibited

          I'm not a witch - I'm you.

          by Pierro Sraffa on Sat Oct 09, 2010 at 08:44:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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