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View Diary: Rutgers paper exploits gay suicide to push do-nothing agenda (161 comments)

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  •  That's a thought I've had for a long time myself (2+ / 0-)
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    Nowhere Man, gooderservice

    and don't often try to put into words. But I do think it needs to be put out there, in just the way you did.

    People may wind up turning the point into a war over semantics or whose connotation of the word in today's society is correct, but I do believe that using the word "tolerance" does imply that we're doing something because we have to or just trying to be polite, but we don't necessarily believe that the people we're "tolerating" are actual equals to the rest of us and we're only treating them that way because everyone else says we should.

    I do prefer to frame the arguments, whenever possible, in terms of equality (treating someone else as an equal instead of just showing them some "tolerance," for example). I think that it makes the point clearer than telling others that they need to be "tolerant" of us.

    And, after all, that's really what it comes down to: in a free society, whether someone agrees with my views or my lifestyle or whatever, I'm still entitled to be treated as an equal to everyone else, and to do otherwise, not only infringes upon my rights and puts their rights above mine, but is also un-American and goes against the very founding principles of this country.

    Never has so much been taken from so many by so few for so long...

    by JWSwift on Mon Oct 11, 2010 at 09:38:41 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Definition (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PsychoSavannah, RoCali

      Tolerance

      –noun
      1.
      a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry.
      2.
      a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward opinions and practices that differ from one's own.
      3.
      interest in and concern for ideas, opinions, practices, etc., foreign to one's own; a liberal, undogmatic viewpoint.

      The word "tolerance" isn't usually used in that way -- that you "tolerate" something, despite the root of the word.

      Disclosure: I'm working as an unpaid citizen journalist covering the Sestak campaign/ PA Sen. race for Huffington Post's "Eyes and Ears 2010" project

      by joanneleon on Mon Oct 11, 2010 at 10:09:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Just posted the same below (0+ / 0-)

        It is the word to use.

        "Acceptance" will never be truly gained by members of the huge religions that dominate the globe.  Unless those religious teachings change drastically, tolerance is the best we can hope for.  Considering most have been around for thousands of years, I'm not holding my breath.

        •  No, many people will never "accept" gays. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gooderservice

          Nor should we expect them to. That borders on telling people what they should think. (We have Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck around for the purpose of TELLING people what they should think.)

          I'm aware of the textbook definition of the word and how according to that definition, it's technically the right word to use. However, as the previous person had indicated, many people have a somewhat different connotation to the word and think that it means that they need to accommodate or do a favor to others by "tolerating" them, almost as if they're being magnanimous by NOT beating the shit out of a gay person.

          When you come at it from the other direction, with the assertion that (as is a founding principle of our country and a bedrock value that our individual liberties and freedoms are based upon) EVERY OTHER PERSON in the country is an equal to you, whether you like them or not, whether you approve of their religion or not, whether you think they're going to hell or not, or whatever, then there is no need to "tolerate" anything--you already "get" that that person standing next to you is supposed to be your equal and you should be treating them as such. Doesn't mean that you have to accept them or like them or approve of them, but they're an equal, nevertheless. Someone who you recognize and accept as your equal, you're naturally going to treat them as an equal. The way that many people view the word "tolerance" means that they're not seeing the other person as their equal, and therefore they're going to "tolerate" the existence of the other person.

          Never has so much been taken from so many by so few for so long...

          by JWSwift on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 02:02:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't care what people THINK a word (0+ / 0-)

            means.  It has a definition....one that's been around for a very long time.  And it is the absolutely appropriate word to use for the policies in place in most schools and many workplaces.

            •  No need for a hissy fit. (0+ / 0-)

              You do what you think is right, and I'll go my way.

              So much for trying to find common ground or a better way to reach people and have them understand our issues.

              Never has so much been taken from so many by so few for so long...

              by JWSwift on Tue Oct 12, 2010 at 03:17:55 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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