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  •  It's unfortunate, but the solution IS NOT (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    3goldens, fizziks, Matt Z, acnetj, echatwa, guinea

    sending more kids to college.  The solution is for businesses to stop requiring college degrees for jobs that don't require college-level skills.  Obviously, the situation is more complex than that, and fixing dysfunctional K-12 education so graduates are actually capable, but I believe that's the crux of the problem

    •  Yes...and companies used (6+ / 0-)

      to provide funding and training if it was needed in order for employees to advance in their companies.  

      •  I saw an ad the other day (7+ / 0-)

        that required a bachelor's for a $13/hr. "answering the phone" job.  Ridiculous.

        •  often the (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          elfling, wishingwell, 3goldens, Matt Z

          big retailers are requiring something more than high school.  Look who's being hired at Best Buy, Family Video, etc.  In fact, our local Family Video down the road has a sign up advertising their hiring managers.  At $30,000/yr.  I'm am almost positively sure that these positions require either degrees or very long years of experience in retail management.  

          •  When it would take 2-3 mo. of training for a (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            wishingwell, 3goldens, Matt Z, echatwa

            competent high school grad. to do.  $30,000 is not a bad salary for a H.S. grad in a lot of areas, but you'd have a hard time financing a community college education with that.  Sad.

            •  Exactly. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              elfling, 3goldens, Matt Z

              It would be a great opportunity for a 24 year old with a few years' retail work under his/her belt.  And, I might ask, why are they not promoting from within?  If a degree, even a two year degree is truly necessary, why aren't they providing their current employees with the opportunity to get this?  I can't believe there is simply no interest.

              •  Most of those store managers are over 35 and (0+ / 0-)

                most have more than 5 years fulltime experience working retail. My husband says most of their store managers are over 40. He works at Lowes and a store manager can be transferred to any store in the country and well then they have to move.  He says there is a lot of stress and pressure for a job that pays 30k however.

                •  One of my daughters (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  wishingwell, Matt Z

                  worked as a manager for a very-well-known-greetingcard/gift-store chain.  She quit.  Never even reached $30,000/yr.  The pressure placed on such people was horrible.  She often worked seven days a week.  Regional management came through every year and got rid of a large portion of the store managers.   She left swearing that she'd never work retail again.  Such stories are quite common in many retail chains, I believe.

              •  In order to advance in retail, you need to (0+ / 0-)

                be willing to work at terrible wages for years and kiss up to management, work your ass off, and tell them  you are dedicating your career to retail management.  

                Retail advancement into management can be done but often the pay is not worth sometimes it is easier to work hourly than get a dollar more per hour to work salary and end up putting in 60 hours per week at a lousy salary.

                My friend has worked in retail for 20 years and she only became a dept manager 2 years ago. She is a woman and it was tough and she had to show them this is the only career she wants.

          •  My husband works retail and he says those manager (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Jim in VA

            jobs for 3Ok are managers of the entire store, often a very large store like Lowes, Home Depot, Office Depot, Walmart, KMart, Target...etc.

            And yes they often want not just a college degree but usually at least 5 years experience working retail.  

            And it is a lot of responsibility. If the store is not making a profit, often the store manager is blamed. And managers get fired more quickly than the sales clerks. There is a lot of pressure on managers..and anything goes wrong in the store whether they are on duty or not, they could be fired in a flash.

            My husband says department manager and store manager turnover is huge.

        •  This this this. (9+ / 0-)

          Economically as a society we're pretty much overeducated. Even among new college grads, underemployment/unemployment rates are way above where they should be.

          Even say if magically we could send everybody to get a degree, all that would do is to make a degree economically worthless, as what makes a degree valuable, or at least made it valuable at one point was the scarcity.

          Which I'm fine with. We'll eventually be paying those with degrees and those without degrees about equivalent wages. But we need to reform our economy as a whole so that doesn't blow society wide apart.

          The solution is that the public, instead of private companies need to claim productivity increases.

          #1. Increase the minimum wage to a living wage.

          #2. Lower the # hours per week until it goes into an overtime situation

          #3. Universal health care (single payer)

          #4. Easier unionization.

          This is our story...

          by Karmakin on Sun Oct 17, 2010 at 11:08:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  The employers are doing it because (0+ / 0-)

          they can do it. I don't really know what people they're trying to look for anyway.

        •  Maybe they just want someone who... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          can speak intelligently to their customers...maybe the subject matter is grossly oversimplify the situation...

          Obama - Change I still believe in

          by dvogel001 on Sun Oct 17, 2010 at 12:26:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  As I went to college, I am (0+ / 0-)

            capable of understanding a job description.  This job was for what essentially amounts to reception and general office duties.  It IS ridiculous to require a college degree for that - especially for a shitty wage.  Additionally, if the information is so complex and needs such clear communication, the pay ought to not be so insulting.

    •  Almost all jobs require more than HS... (0+ / 0-)

      today with automation and complexity of society...

      Obama - Change I still believe in

      by dvogel001 on Sun Oct 17, 2010 at 12:25:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  yes it is ridiculous (0+ / 0-)

      Society has really dropped the ball on this.  A high school diploma used to signify that someone was responsible enough to hold a job and could follow instructions and respond to training.  

      Now thanks to education inflation, a bachelors degree is what signifies that.  What a ridiculous society that people have to spend more than $30,000 and four years to prove that to potential employers.

      Everyone loses.  College gets dumbed down, and families and people spend ungodly sums of money.

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