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View Diary: RKBA:The illogic of safe gun ownership. (308 comments)

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  •  If you are talking to me, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    my point is that these things cannot kill from a distance while guns can so there is less danger of being killed by a knife, baseball bat, etc, than from a gun, especially accidentally. So I find the "knives can kill" argument not particularly germane to the gun issue.

    •  Why not? (6+ / 0-)

      Where guns are banned, knife crime has increased. See the UK.

      (RKBA) Right to Keep and Bear Arms: interested in a DKos RKBA group? Email in profile. Share Our Wealth

      by KVoimakas on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 07:59:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Because you have to be closer, (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        buddabelly, Rich in PA, oldpunk

        because I find it hard to believe that a drive by knifing could take place, or an innocent by stander getting stabbed, or that it would not have been easier to get away from someone with a knife than a gun (in most circumstances), or that a child accidentally stabs himself to death. Have knife killings, as opposed to knife violence, gone up in the UK to the point that there is no difference in killings there and here?

        •  But what is the frequency and number of people (7+ / 0-)

          killed from a "distance"?  There is no argument that these things do at times happen.  My question would be that do such incidents occur at a frequency that justifies limiting my ability to defend myself from a distance?  My answer is no, they don't.

          Don't believe what the politicians do, don't believe what they say, all they want to do is fuck you and get fat on their pay.

          by oldpunk on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 08:12:54 AM PDT

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        •  do a little research on the UK, it will surprise (8+ / 0-)

          the hell out of you.....I know it did me.....

          I always just believed those who claimed we were so much more violent than others.....It's just not so....

          In Glasgow and other rough cities they mutilate each other for fun and glasgow smile and frequency or such....

          One article I read had a hospital admission every 6 hours from knife wounds and 2-3 "Glasgow Smiles" a Glasgow alone!.....If 3 people a week were being facially mutilated in any city in our country, the shit would hit so hard and fast it would whiplash a person watching the crackdown.....

          They are over twice as likely to be assaulted as we are...iirc, Scotland was 3%  England 2.8% and the U.S. was at 1.2 percent......

          Europeans talk a hell of a game, especially Brits/UK but when you actually look at numbers, which is hard as hell compared to ours because theirs are buried in a 300+ page PDF instead of just a searchable website like ours, it starts to show a very different story......The story of a society breaking down just as fast if not faster than ours......

          "Guess who's laughing while the world explodes, When we're all crybabies Who fight best among ourselves" John Joseph Lydon

          by buddabelly on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 08:32:58 AM PDT

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          •  Thanks, will look it up. (7+ / 0-)

            And thanks for the discussion. Now I have to go spend some time with my 14 year old German Shepherd whose back legs no longer work so our time with him is short.

            •  My condolences on your dog. (7+ / 0-)

              I lost my first pet (my wife's cat Camo) just a few months back.

              "It sucks" doesn't even begin to cover it.


              (RKBA) Right to Keep and Bear Arms: interested in a DKos RKBA group? Email in profile. Share Our Wealth

              by KVoimakas on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 08:51:55 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Sorry to hear about your pal, I have two (6+ / 0-)

              pretty old guys myself and I can see the stiffness and such beginning.....

              There's a supplement called Missing Link that is the absolute bomb, a miracle in a gold foil bag.....

              It gave my best old girl ever 2 extra happy and full years and when I heard about this stuff, I was just about ready to put her down to stop the pain and suffering...

              The stuff is amazing..My miniDoxi was a rescue who had been badly abused and at 12 already had serious back and pain she would have a seizure every month or so, not enough to medicate but enough to scare the hell out of everyone.....

              Since she has been taking this stuff, not only does she run around and tussle with the others again, she's only shown pain one time when just the other day she launched her silly ass off the bed and wrenched her back....She's already better and to top it all off, she hasn't had a seizure since she started taking the supplement......not one......

              Can you tell I'm sold on this stuff?

              I rec it for any of our old friends and they love it as it's main ingredient is liver.....about 20 bucks a bag at Petsmart.....

              Once again, so sorry to hear it.....losing a much beloved pet to me is as bad as a family member and I've been through too many of both.......

              "Guess who's laughing while the world explodes, When we're all crybabies Who fight best among ourselves" John Joseph Lydon

              by buddabelly on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 09:07:48 AM PDT

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              •  I would say worse than losing a family member. (7+ / 0-)

                You don't put down your family members.

                And I've never had a pet I didn't like though I have a lot of people who some consider family members I fucking deplore.

                (RKBA) Right to Keep and Bear Arms: interested in a DKos RKBA group? Email in profile. Share Our Wealth

                by KVoimakas on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 09:11:39 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Thanks for sharing this valuable info (6+ / 0-)

                I'm looking it up as we speak..."Missing Link" sold at Petsmart...

                I haven't been there in a while...

                Thanks again!

                •  it's really miracle stuff and works on any age (5+ / 0-)

                  the gold bag is the geriatric stuff with glucosamine and chondroiten....Absolutely amazing results and it only takes a 1/4 teaspoon a day per ten pounds of body weight.....Haley only gets a tich over .25 and my old guys are both around 40-50 lbs so it won't take much for them either......

                  Even with all three dogs on it, a pound will last a month and for the quality of life difference I've witnessed, it's well worth it......

                  "Guess who's laughing while the world explodes, When we're all crybabies Who fight best among ourselves" John Joseph Lydon

                  by buddabelly on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 10:27:27 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Thanks. (6+ / 0-)

                Just spent about an hour sitting with him, giving him chicken and brushing his coat (which is one of his major pleasures in life.) He  has been on DeraMax and JointMax but they finally stopped working. The good thing is that he is not in pain - of course, that makes the decision worse, even though I am very grateful that he does not hurt. But he can't walk or even get up by himself anymore so my husband is having to move him whenever he needs to move and that is not sustainable. Plus, it distresses him both not to be able to move or to be physically moved.

                We've had him since he was 9 or 10 weeks old and he is 14 1/2 now so he has had a long, long life for a shepherd. But it is one of the worst things to deal with ever.

                I just have to focus on what a blessing he has been for all these years.

          •  I've long thought part of the problem in the UK.. (7+ / 0-)

   that the justice system, especially when it comes to juvenile justice, is laughably mild.  It's a conservative's dystopian fantasy of liberal justice.

            The most impressive thing about man [...] is the fact that he has invented the concept of that which does not exist--Glenn Gould

            by Rich in PA on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 09:01:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  so what? (7+ / 0-)

          Most criminal uses of firearms (and civilian defensive uses for that matter) occur at ten feet or less.  It's a myth that firearms lead to criminals killing at a distance.  Criminals attack you up close and personally.  Hard to steal someone's wallet or rape them through a rifle scope.

          BTW, at 21 feet or less an upturned knife is more dangerous than a holstered firearm.  The typical person can run 21 feet and stab faster than the typical person can draw and fire a handgun.

          There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

          by Crookshanks on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 09:10:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  ??? Don't you (5+ / 0-)

      ever watch those martial arts movies? Throwing stars and knives galore. In the Bronze Age (back when Middle Eastern desert tribes were forging a national identity) stoning was the preferred method of capital punishment. People weren't attempting to toss boulders big enough to kill, they were lobbing stones small and light enough to be held in the hand and thrown hard.

      Of course, such things don't have the range of a rifle. Which, once invented and available to TPTB, allowed the preferred method of capital punishment to be the firing squad. Much quicker and neater.

      Now, more than ever, we need the Jedi.

      by Joieau on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 08:14:09 AM PDT

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    •  Yes, so when I was 13 yrs old and there was (10+ / 0-)

      a gang of 18+ guys standing on our front porch, demanding to be let in and then breaking our windows and then forcibly entering into our home, I was to get a knife and stop them? Not my father's 357?

      I was at least 8 feet away from them when they started to barge in.  Had I not had my father's gun and my sister not cocked the 12 gauge on the stairs behind me, we would have most likely been killed, then they would have lay in wait for my parents to come home from the store.

      So, the fact that they can kill from a distance, IMO, is what makes them an effective defensive tool.  I could not have stopped 18+ guys with a knife and my brown belt in karate.  Their sheer numbers would have defeated my trained abilities.  I couldn't run, I didn't know their true intentions and my sister who was a higher trained brown-belt, together, we could not have stopped all of them.

      And seriously, almost anything can be used a weapon and ultimately kill.  

      •  I certainly think you should be able to have (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        buddabelly, oldpunk

        a gun in your home. I said so early in this discussion. My point is that just saying that you can use other things to kill is not germane to the gun issue because guns are a different kind of beast. Ninja stars, catapults, and boiling oil notwithstanding.

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