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View Diary: RKBA:The illogic of safe gun ownership. (308 comments)

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  •  My rights end where yours begin (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    oldpunk, Crookshanks, KVoimakas

    Your rights end where mine begin.  

    Our constitution was designed to create a government that would not discriminate, it took the 13th and 14th amendments to reach the ideal encapsulated in the Declaration of Independence, that all men are created equal then the 19th amendment for it to include women. But you know these things already.

    The "separate but equal" doctrine was destroyed, as it should have been but it's based on the idea that our government cannot and must not do these things.

    Not being discriminated against by our government.  The individual citizen that discriminates, while I loathe the idea even, it's their right is it not?

    To believe what they so desire? How are they actually hurting someone else if that injured victim can always go elsewhere?  They haven't been stopped from eating, working or even living.

    This is the beginning of the Authoritarian mentality that has swept this nation.  IMHO.

    •  No, it's not their right. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gerrilea, rockhound, buddabelly, oldpunk

      I believe many things. I believe that I should be able to shoot the rapist who forced himself on a friend of mine (repeat this twice over; I know of two.)

      My belief system does inflict harm (or would, on those two guys.)

      So does the idea that they can go elsewhere. That's not always true and that's still wrong. Isn't that nothing but an extension of separate but equal?

      (RKBA) Right to Keep and Bear Arms: interested in a DKos RKBA group? Email in profile. Share Our Wealth

      by KVoimakas on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 10:29:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It can be, yes. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oldpunk, Crookshanks

        But separate but equal was about what and how our government acted. Two difference venues or areas, private vs. public.

        We are already getting back to that abolished doctrine by these "charter schools" and "school vouchers".  When my tax dollars are used to send a person to a private religious school.  I have a problem. Is not the government then supporting religion? The tax exemptions are another sore spot.

        Does/do the anti's beliefs hurt you? They can believe I'm a crazy, unstable penis worshiper, that's ready to blow (pun intended) my marbles and start on a killing rampage, all they want.  It doesn't make it true or infringe upon my rights.  But when they get laws or statutes passed that curtail my rights based on those opinions, they've crossed a line.  Have they not?

    •  lets say the only pharmacist in many miles is a (6+ / 0-)

      fundy extremist and refuses to sell the pill to single women or the morning after pill to anyone....

      This has happened here in the midwest...By exercising his "right" to discriminate, he has most definitely impacted on the woman's rights......

      It's the same imo, 99% of business are a public accommodation in addition to being a business......

      "Guess who's laughing while the world explodes, When we're all crybabies Who fight best among ourselves" John Joseph Lydon

      by buddabelly on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 10:34:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What about his right to practice his religious (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oldpunk, Crookshanks

        beliefs?  Where do we draw these lines?  So, we cannot have religious based businesses now?

        Remember the Boy Scouts were granted the right to practice their beliefs when hiring a gay person.  Clearly they deny many qualified applicants from consideration for employment but the idea still stands.

        The government can't discriminate...private individuals are not bound by the constitution.

        The constitution is what binds our government.

        •  When he entered the public sphere, as a business (5+ / 0-)

          open to the public, he forsook many of his rights.

          (RKBA) Right to Keep and Bear Arms: interested in a DKos RKBA group? Email in profile. Share Our Wealth

          by KVoimakas on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 10:55:46 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  How is this constitutional? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            oldpunk, Crookshanks

            If I go into business, I must give up my unalienable right to practice my religious beliefs, while in my daily life? I can't actually practice my beliefs then can I? Or must that unalienable right be neutered and controlled that you can only practice your faith on this day at this time and only at this location?

            I seriously don't see a difference between the 1st and the 2nd amendments here.

            It's the authoritarian mentality that the government is obligated to form, shape and control what every individual believes, thinks and does in our society, for the sake of society.

            I firmly believe that society has no rights, that the individual that comprises society does.

            •  asdf (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              rockhound, buddabelly

              It's the authoritarian mentality that the government is obligated to form, shape and control what every individual believes, thinks and does in our society, for the sake of society.

              I don't want to impact beliefs.
              I don't want to impact thinking.
              I want the government to ensure our rights aren't infringed by fellow citizens (just like the Constitution is supposed to protect our rights from the government.) In this case, I think that your property right is trumped.

              (RKBA) Right to Keep and Bear Arms: interested in a DKos RKBA group? Email in profile. Share Our Wealth

              by KVoimakas on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 11:21:42 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  the only way a fellow citizen can infringe your (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gerrilea, oldpunk

                rights is through assaults on the person (kidnapping/rape/assault/murder) that have always been illegal.

                Any other association between individuals is voluntary and can be terminated by one or both participants at their leisure.

                There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

                by Crookshanks on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 11:24:36 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  bull refusal to serve in the situation I laid out (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  gerrilea, rockhound, oldpunk, KVoimakas

                  could cause death....

                  We went through this in the 60's guys.....

                  "Guess who's laughing while the world explodes, When we're all crybabies Who fight best among ourselves" John Joseph Lydon

                  by buddabelly on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 12:41:59 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  so what? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    gerrilea

                    Refusal to do any number of things could theoretically cause someone's death.

                    The question to my mind is whether or not the state should be in the business of forcing citizens to associate with one another.  I don't think it should be.

                    Besides, one can make a case for why it's worse for your hypothetical woman to compel her Doctor/pharmacist to write/fill that prescription.  Would you rather that she do business with someone opposed to her life choices whom may not give her all the facts about those choices or would you rather that she seek out a less biased source of information?

                    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

                    by Crookshanks on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 01:46:01 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  really dude you're sounding like David Duke and (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      KVoimakas

                      honestly I find it embarrassing......

                      "Guess who's laughing while the world explodes, When we're all crybabies Who fight best among ourselves" John Joseph Lydon

                      by buddabelly on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 05:55:39 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  time to play the racism card then is it? (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        gerrilea

                        There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

                        by Crookshanks on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 08:15:08 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  you are arguing for the right to discriminate (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          KVoimakas

                          If that's not a racist/classist/sexist/whatever ist position then enlighten me....

                          Under civil rights law it is plain that discrimination based on color creed race religion are all incompatible with our ideals as a country...and hopefully soon sexual orientation

                          A public accommodation flat does not have the right to discriminate no matter how much the right to free association is invoked....

                          If you are having a barbecue, you most definitely have the right to invite anyone you like....If on the other hand, you sell that barbecue to the public, then you have crossed the line to public accommodation  and your right to chose association, your customers, is limited by civil rights law and for a very good reason.....

                          Allowing discrimination and saying the marketplace will stop it is not reality.  The only thing that has ever stopped discrimination is civil rights law.....and to this day it's a fight.  There are regular studies that show people with "Black sounding" names get less job interviews even with identical resumes and are still to this day discriminated against in housing, medical care and other areas......

                          Back to my og statement about the fundy pharmacist, If they are not able to treat all equally while doing their job while leaving their religion and prejudices behind, then they are in the wrong business......

                          And in many areas, they might be the only option for many miles...Not everyone is lucky enough to be able to up and go somewhere else...Like myself now, I've been stuck here for 3 weeks with every car broken....If the local store decided they weren't going to serve my hippie ass as I don't fit in their religious beliefs then they have caused harm and possibly grave physical harm......

                          That's what the civil rights movement was about and the fight continues to this day....It's not a post anything society by any stretch and without the law as it sits, we would be in the jim crow days again within a year.....

                          Our ideal is that all men are created equal....unfortunately this requires the force of law as we are a multi ist society....and I don't see that changing soon.....

                          This is why the entire set of amendments need to be incorporated against the states under P&I where it belongs....As Americans we have certain privileges and immunities and one of those is that public accommodations are not allowed to discriminate.....

                          "Guess who's laughing while the world explodes, When we're all crybabies Who fight best among ourselves" John Joseph Lydon

                          by buddabelly on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 09:16:43 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I'm arguing for the right of free association (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            gerrilea

                            Nothing more, nothing less.

                            You have a depressing view of the United States if you think we'd be back to Jim Crow in a year without forced association.

                            There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

                            by Crookshanks on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 10:31:33 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  you have the right to free association all you (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            KVoimakas

                            want in your personal life. So do I , so does everyone....

                            When in business you are a public accommodation and as such, you have a limited ability to refuse service....

                            Maybe New York has managed to kill off most racism/any ism....but I doubt it....There are still many many people who would love a return to segregation whether by force of law or through the application of Free Association to segregate their business.....The thought of seeing whites only signs again in this country makes me ill....and it would happen if the Federal Civil Rights laws weren't enforced......

                            "Guess who's laughing while the world explodes, When we're all crybabies Who fight best among ourselves" John Joseph Lydon

                            by buddabelly on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 10:40:43 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  But aren't we then getting into contract law? (0+ / 0-)

                            Don't I have the right to chose with whom I make contracts? There's an implied contract that if I manufacture then sell a product that it will work as described and promoted and that it will be safe if used as intended and now (as directed).

                            Please see my post on how I could not protect my Store against the pilferage of school students here.

                            The idea of segregation from a moral perspective, I have to agree, it shouldn't be allowed.  And I'm grateful that there are laws that make the behavior illegal.

                            But aren't we going overboard with this? Soon, every person in America will be considered a "protected class." We'll all be designated as victims.  A society based on "I'm a victim" and the mentality that "you owe me."

                            While sadly I agree with your point that many would love to return to segregation, and it reared its ugly head as a corporate manager for Uni-Mart, LLC out of PA. My field supervisor never actually told me not to hire black people, but he made it very clear he didn't want them working for the company by saying: "They don't fit the image of our Company." Out of the 154 Store Managers, not one of them was black and in all the stores I ever visited, I never saw a black employee, except in my Store.

                            And I'm stopping now, because, again, this could be flushed out in a separate diary that many would not like to hear or read.

                            Back to my point on how this relates to guns, haven't we argued that gun control is so many things and that we can't legislate morality?

                            How do we reconcile these clearly two opposing views, the unalienable right to practice and live ones faith and the "right to buy", which by the way, I've never read that part in the constitution.

                            If I had an open carry license and I was doing so in my own business and a customer comes in and gets offended because they have a faith of strict non-violence, who's rights prevail here?  From your stated perspective, I would then be obligated to remove and hide my firearm, correct?

                            We get into very dangerous waters here if this is allowed, imho.

                            Or what about Muslim women that wear their Burka's? If they wear one and I enter their establishment to do business, what if I'm offended? Do they have to remove it because they are "in the public domain"?

                            It could be used by our overzealous LEO to prevent them from exercising what is clearly a religious mandate for them, could it not?

                            Again, very dangerous waters we enter into.

                          •  actually no.... (0+ / 0-)

                            you have a limited ability to refuse service....

                            You can still refuse service for almost any reason you want other than the customer being a member of a protected class.

                            The thought of seeing whites only signs again in this country makes me ill

                            I would love to see it happen again.  Then I would know who the racists are and could ensure that my money is not going to them.  As I said in a different post, this is a self-correcting problem.

                            There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

                            by Crookshanks on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 08:02:39 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  With the fuckhead racists I deal with (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            buddabelly

                            up here in the UP, I'd say my point of view would be justified in certain areas.

                            (RKBA) Right to Keep and Bear Arms: interested in a DKos RKBA group? Email in profile. Share Our Wealth

                            by KVoimakas on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 10:41:34 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  There's sure a few here too, I'm lucky (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            gerrilea, KVoimakas

                            in that Tucson is much better than many for having a multicultural population with very few problems.

                            Some of the Phx area though whew but even here, I clicked into craigslist local rants and raves and thought I'd been redirected to fucking stormfront......They're here too...

                            Where I actually live is probably 60%+ hispanic, mostly Mexican and out here, everyone really just gets along....

                            There's been 29 houses in my neighborhood hit in the last 6 weeks...Worst part, the damn cops know who it is, they just haven't caught them for some reason....Typical nest of tweakers.....An old friend got hit yesterday...These scumbags are focusing on guns too, they cut open his safe and took everything including the ammunition.....

                            We haven't been able to leave the house unattended for quite a while now and it's really a pita.....

                            "Guess who's laughing while the world explodes, When we're all crybabies Who fight best among ourselves" John Joseph Lydon

                            by buddabelly on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 10:55:32 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  How'd they cut into his safe? (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            gerrilea, buddabelly

                            Did he actually have a vault safe or was it a wooden gun cabinet safe?

                            (RKBA) Right to Keep and Bear Arms: interested in a DKos RKBA group? Email in profile. Share Our Wealth

                            by KVoimakas on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 10:57:40 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  RSC rather than a real safe safe (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            gerrilea, KVoimakas

                            but these guys are bringing the tools to do the job because there have been those with very nice safes with the same results....and his was certainly better than mine..

                            Luckily, my "shed" is an 8x40 shipping container and then I keep them in another safe inside it....A safe in a safe but if they have torches, they can still get in.....

                            These scum bust in and just take everything and leave a person with literally nothing, down to the small kitchen .

                            I really hope the cops arrest these scum quick because if not, someone is going to get hurt....so far they do it in the daytime when no one is home but sooner or later, someone is going to catch them in the act....They're just hitting too hard and fast to not have it happen......

                            "Guess who's laughing while the world explodes, When we're all crybabies Who fight best among ourselves" John Joseph Lydon

                            by buddabelly on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 11:05:20 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

              •  Is this not the actual intent of laws? (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                oldpunk, Crookshanks

                To control, stop and/or modify behaviors of individuals within society?

            •  Your inalienable right to practice your religious (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              rockhound, buddabelly, oldpunk

              belief is impacting someone else.

              So there's where your rights end (at the end of your nose.)

              (RKBA) Right to Keep and Bear Arms: interested in a DKos RKBA group? Email in profile. Share Our Wealth

              by KVoimakas on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 11:33:19 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Constitutionality: (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              rockhound, buddabelly, oldpunk

              1964 Civil Rights Act

              Why is that Constitutional?

              14th amendment, 15th amendment, and Article one (section 8) of the Constitution.

              (RKBA) Right to Keep and Bear Arms: interested in a DKos RKBA group? Email in profile. Share Our Wealth

              by KVoimakas on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 11:37:31 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Using your assertion (and I'm not trying to (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gerrilea, buddabelly, oldpunk

            disparage it), Costco, being a membership (private) business, could discriminate, but Walmart, not requireing a membership, could not?

            Or am I overthinking this?

            •  Membership is open to the public. nt (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              rockhound, buddabelly, oldpunk

              (RKBA) Right to Keep and Bear Arms: interested in a DKos RKBA group? Email in profile. Share Our Wealth

              by KVoimakas on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 11:37:59 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  But there's plenty of SCOTUS decisions (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                oldpunk, KVoimakas

                that say that membership in a private organization does not have to be open to all. It gets murkier when public funds or property are involved, but in the case at hand, I see no reason that Costco could not restrict membership to white Christians... or to left-handed bisexual dentists, for that matter. I might be wrong about that, though.

                Like the right to be armed, the right to discriminate in private affairs is one of the questions that can give great insight into the degree to which a person would control his fellow man. For liberals, questions like these describe the threshold of authoritarianism, much as questions relating to sexual conduct or drugs do for conservatives.

                While I abhor it, and consider it vile, I would not use the power of the State to prohibit it.

                --Shannon

                --Shannon

                "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
                "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

                by Leftie Gunner on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 05:41:40 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  disagree completely, it is not authoritarian in (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  KVoimakas

                  any way to force a public accommodation to serve all with no prejudice...That's why jim crow is no more, separate but equal does not work in the real world....

                  Any public accommodation ie a pharmacy should be required to serve all.....not impose their religious beliefs on the public....

                  "Guess who's laughing while the world explodes, When we're all crybabies Who fight best among ourselves" John Joseph Lydon

                  by buddabelly on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 07:27:10 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Key sentence in your post (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  KVoimakas

                  "Like the right to be armed, the right to discriminate in private affairs"

                  Nothing mentioned here is a private affair.....

                  A person may associate with any one they like in Private Affairs.  

                  However, once you open your door to the public it's no longer a private affair and has become a public accommodation......Just like landlords can not refuse to rent to Mexicans, christians, muslims, whatever.....As a landlord they have crossed the line from private to public.......

                  Same reason the ADA is constitutional, it only affects public accommodations...No one can make you make your own house handicapped accessible they sure can make you do that in your gas station or whatever....

                  "Guess who's laughing while the world explodes, When we're all crybabies Who fight best among ourselves" John Joseph Lydon

                  by buddabelly on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 09:25:12 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  his religious beliefs have no bearing on my right (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gerrilea, rockhound, oldpunk, KVoimakas

          to health care, scientifically based healthcare, not voodoo.....

          By "following his religion" he's causing harm to others....

          As you say, your rights end at my nose.....

          same applies to a restaurant who won't serve blacks or a golf club that won't admit women......

          And imo the Boy Scout decision was a horrible one....What would say if the boyscouts wanted to keep out all mexicans?

          "Guess who's laughing while the world explodes, When we're all crybabies Who fight best among ourselves" John Joseph Lydon

          by buddabelly on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 11:04:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Don't you always have the choice (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            oldpunk, Crookshanks

            to move or go elsewhere?

            Are you not now employing the same emotional arguments used against us and the 2nd amendment?

            Look, I'm not saying it morally correct here to discriminate against anyone for any reason, religious or created. I think it's truly insane that we haven't evolved past these "ideals" yet.

            •  No. You don't. (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gerrilea, rockhound, buddabelly, oldpunk

              That would be the republican argument for the states rights BS.

              Don't like it? Move.

              And it's not always an option. I can't move right now even though I'd like to. But since I'm a responsible person and pay my bills and support my family, I cannot.

              (RKBA) Right to Keep and Bear Arms: interested in a DKos RKBA group? Email in profile. Share Our Wealth

              by KVoimakas on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 11:22:43 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  it's also a Democrat argument when gun control (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gerrilea, oldpunk

                comes up.....

                That would be the republican argument for the states rights BS.

                There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

                by Crookshanks on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 11:25:16 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  And neither could I, at the moment (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                oldpunk, Crookshanks, KVoimakas

                But I wasn't thinking of States' rights vs. Federal Authority.

                I see the simplest solution where by the government would be obligated to open up a public commissary.

                As a Store Manager, I was informed that my limiting  of 2 students without parental supervision was "discriminatory."  

                Even though I could show on tape, no less, that when a group or gang of them came into my store they would intentionally distract my cashiers while the others pilfered the store.

                This happened almost every day, but I was not allowed to set up reasonable standards or precautions to protect my stores assets and inventory.

                The only choice I had was to hire an armed security guard or work every shift of every day of every year. Neither of which were affordable or realistic.

      •  no, he's made it more INCONVENIENT for that (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gerrilea, oldpunk

        woman to exercise her rights.  He has not denied her any rights.  Individuals can't deny you your rights, only the state can.  The difference between the two is that you aren't forced to associate with any particular individual, you ARE forced to associate with the state.

        Even in this deep blue state (New York) it's still legal for a MD to refuse to proscribe or even talk about birth control with a patient if it runs afoul of their religious beliefs.  I wouldn't have believed this until my GF's GP refused to write her a new script for the patch and she complained to Albany only to get the brush off.

        Tell me, were my GF's "rights" violated or was she simply inconvenienced by having to find another Doctor?

        Tell me another thing, is it really in my GF's best interests to compel someone who is opposed to the notion of birth control to talk about it with her?  Might it just be possible that she'll get biased information as a result of this compulsion?

        There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

        by Crookshanks on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 11:22:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's in your GF's best interest to (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rockhound, buddabelly, oldpunk

          have the doctor write the RX even if he doesn't believe in that.

          (RKBA) Right to Keep and Bear Arms: interested in a DKos RKBA group? Email in profile. Share Our Wealth

          by KVoimakas on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 11:29:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  no, it's in my GF's best interest to have a (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gerrilea

            candid discussion with an UNBIASED source about birth control.  Compelling someone who doesn't want to have that discussion does not ensure that the patients interests are being protected.

            Suppose the method of birth control the patient is asking for isn't well suited to them because of their medical history.  Is the patient going to find this out or will the Doc just write the script to keep the state off his or her back without performing due diligence?

            There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

            by Crookshanks on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 11:40:20 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  She doesn't want a conversation. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              rockhound, buddabelly

              She wants an RX for a pill she's already taking.

              (RKBA) Right to Keep and Bear Arms: interested in a DKos RKBA group? Email in profile. Share Our Wealth

              by KVoimakas on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 11:41:16 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  which may or may not still be suited to her... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gerrilea

                .... there's a reason why prescriptions have a limited number of refills.

                There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

                by Crookshanks on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 11:42:18 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Because doctors need more money. (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  gerrilea, rockhound, buddabelly

                  I have to bow out though. It's time to go to sleep. If I can't, I'll be on tomorrow of course and respond then.

                  I'm enjoying the conversation, even though I don't think we'll sway the other person.

                  (RKBA) Right to Keep and Bear Arms: interested in a DKos RKBA group? Email in profile. Share Our Wealth

                  by KVoimakas on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 11:44:29 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  well, that's the cynical way of looking at it.... (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    gerrilea, KVoimakas

                    ... something I can appreciate.  To an extent I agree with you but you can't deny the value in having a Doctor review your history before proscribing certain drugs.  That's particularly true for hormonal birth control with all the side effects and contraindications (high blood pressure, weight, etc.) that go along with it.

                    Catch some sleep, I'm not going anywhere :)

                    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

                    by Crookshanks on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 11:51:20 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I take prednisone. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      buddabelly

                      It's the only thing that keeps my Crohn's in check. But they give me shit every time I want a refill and want to do a colonoscopy all the god damn time.

                      That requires two days off from work for BOTH jobs, borrowing a car to drive for an hour and a 1/2 and finding a hotel room to stay in.

                      I just want my RX. I don't understand why they keep me on these other meds that don't fucking work and just give me restrictions and side effects.

                      (RKBA) Right to Keep and Bear Arms: interested in a DKos RKBA group? Email in profile. Share Our Wealth

                      by KVoimakas on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 10:25:55 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  I don't want either of you to persuade the other. (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    gerrilea, Crookshanks, KVoimakas

                    There is no balance if we all believe the same thing.

                    Don't believe what the politicians do, don't believe what they say, all they want to do is fuck you and get fat on their pay.

                    by oldpunk on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 01:12:13 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  in some cases sure, in others they have made (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          KVoimakas

          it impossible for the person in question to receive medical treatment untainted by someone else's religious beliefs.....

          Not everyone has the ability to just up and go find another Dr/Pharmacist.....whether that's due to location income, the need to hide it from abusive parents,....There are many possibilities where this type of discrimination can cause irreparable harm......

          "Guess who's laughing while the world explodes, When we're all crybabies Who fight best among ourselves" John Joseph Lydon

          by buddabelly on Tue Oct 26, 2010 at 09:29:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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