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View Diary: What about the pay ethic? (294 comments)

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  •  What about personal responsibility? (0+ / 1-)
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    ebohlman

    What choices in a persons life resulted in them being a security guard getting paid minimum wage at the age of 40? I would bet there is a 90% chance that your friend fits the following description:

    1. Had children out of wed lock.
    1. Had children before she had a career path.
    1. Married an ass for a husband.
    1. Owns a blackberry, 60 inch tv, cable, and a car worth more than $1,000.

    It makes me sick to read this nonsense about how "evil corporations" are screwing their employees and getting rich off the slave labor of the employee. Most Americans and especially this new breed of lazy ass 20 year olds think the world is suppose to give them everything and that work is for chumps. I have news for you people who cannot find a job or have been unemployed for more than 99 months.

    The job you had is dead. The career path you picked is dead. Get off your soap box and learn a new skill set. YOU are the only person responsible for your shitty predicament. No person that has: built a business from scratch by spending 80 hours a week for years building the company, pumped all of the profit back into the company instead of buying a $40,000 car and then one day finally making the company profitable wants to hear some whiny ass employee complain about pay when they have no education, exerted no extra effort other than showing up on time, shown no commitment to the company, has no interest in making themselves valuable to the company and certainly never learned anything off the clock that might make them a better employee.

    Stop complaining about companies being evil for trying to make a profit. Start your own company and put them out of business by having better ideas – oh no – why do that when I can elect someone who will steal from the makers and give it to the moochers all for the cheap price of a vote.

    •  so what should happen to all those people? (4+ / 0-)

      they and their children should starve?

      making bad life choices is a death sentence in your world?

      "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
      I don't want to take my country back. I want to take my country FORWARD.

      by TrueBlueMajority on Mon Nov 01, 2010 at 10:46:09 AM PDT

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      •  Making bad choices leads to bad consequences (0+ / 0-)

        "so what should happen to all those people?
        they and their children should starve?"

        No the children should not starve but having a crappy low paying job is a consequence of living for now and the hell with tomorrow.

        "making bad life choices is a death sentence in your world?"

        I worked 40 hours a week while earning a degree in chemistry. I waited until I was 35 to buy a new car. I waited until I was 40 to have a child. I worked two jobs to stay out of debt. I still do not own a cell phone. Americans piss their money away like there is no tomorrow and then want me to pony up money to pay for their bills. People like me are sick of always being the safety net for irresponsible moochers out there that think the world is owed to them because they can breathe.

        95% of the responses about this article are about how people should be paid higher wages because they need it not because they have earned it. Become a valuable employee and you will get more pay. Every job I have had from the age of 16 has paid more than minimum wage after the first 3 months.
        Stop sounding like a school teacher who wants more pay but is off more than 160 days a year!

        •  well since U agree the children should not starve (4+ / 0-)

          then what do you propose?

          ok, we concede that not everyone has the personal discipline you have.

          lack of personal discipline is a death sentence in your world?

          and a death sentence for the children, who have done no wrong, but may grow up to copy the bad choices of their parents unless someone helps them?

          man, it must suck to be as sour and cold and bitter and heartless as you.

          LBNL, 104 of those days the teachers get off are the same Sat/Sun weekend everyone else with an office job gets.

          "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
          I don't want to take my country back. I want to take my country FORWARD.

          by TrueBlueMajority on Mon Nov 01, 2010 at 11:23:49 AM PDT

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          •  death sentence for the children? (0+ / 0-)

            Well there you go again. Lets reach down low and pull up the ole "death sentence for the children".
            This topic is not about children it is about pay. Why should an employer take into consideration if you have a kid when it comes to pay? This is not to each according to his needs. That nonsense died with the Soviet Union. People are payed what they make themselves worth. Low pay typically means little effort in life at doing anything but pleasing yourself.

            Just because I am sick of the government sticking a gun to my head and stealing my money to feed, clothe, educate, coddle, entertain everybody else which forces me to work an additional 20 years does not mean I am bitter. It means I am tired. I suspect a lot of people voting tomorrow are also tired.

            By the way - I am not a republican but I am voting against the democrats.

            •  what else does it mean (4+ / 0-)

              when parents have to work for less than a living wage?

              i'm not reaching low, I'm reaching for reality.

              keep pretending you're not bitter if that makes you feel better.

              the government is not feeding, clothing, educating, coddling, and entertaining "everybody else" with your tax dollars.

              your screen name is well chosen.

              "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
              I don't want to take my country back. I want to take my country FORWARD.

              by TrueBlueMajority on Mon Nov 01, 2010 at 12:34:18 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Bad choices, my ass. (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          salmo, kurt, Deep Harm, DruidQueen

          I spent well over 30 years gaining experience and skills doing architectural, civil and structural engineering based work and due to the greed and malice of Wall Street based crooks my entire industry is trashed during Bush's rush to fiscally kneecap his successor but this is because of My Bad Choices?  My spinal chord and neck are hacked up and my car is totaled by the Surburban-driving twit who never learned how to drive properly and left me with just 1 fully functional limb but the resulting loss of any job option involving a fully working body is because of My Bad Choices? You are obviously a Rethug brainwash who had their empathy (and logic ability) surgically removed as a child.

          Torture is for the weak. After all, it is just extended wheedling.

          by nargel on Mon Nov 01, 2010 at 01:29:58 PM PDT

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        •  Boy, do you sound like a Republican (0+ / 0-)

          Yes, some people make unfortunate choices.  But, starting out in life, we don't all have the same options.  We don't all have the same resources.  The same level of support from family, teachers and mentors has a big impact.  Some of us start life with handicaps like alcoholic parents, disability, or poverty. A lot of what happens to us later in life is shaped by luck. The luck of graduating in a good job market, not being drafted into war, or bumping into a movie scout at a drugstore counter.  None of us could be what we are without the contributions of others who funded the schools we attend, fought for our right to work in certain careers, or fought for laws that prevent workplace injuries.

          But, to listen to you, everyone owes you, but you don't owe anything to anyone.

          On top of that, you suggest that a worker receiving low pay and poor working conditions is not entitled to more...as if cronyism, greed, discrimination and snobbery have nothing to do with the hiring process.

          You're an incredibly ignorant person. I've seen people living on the street, who owned nothing, who had more humanity.

          Truth forever on the scaffold, wrong forever on the throne. - James Russell Lowell

          by Deep Harm on Mon Nov 01, 2010 at 09:07:14 PM PDT

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    •  A bit more: (7+ / 0-)
      1. The children weren't born out of wedlock, although I cannot quite see what difference that would make.
      1. Her career path was housewife.
      1. Her husband was killed in a highway accident (he was a hazmat trucker)
      1. His life insurance paid off the house, which is the only reason she isn't homeless. If she had to pay NYC rent on her salary, she wouldn't even have a place to live.

      But hey, if you hold her responsible for her shitty predicament, then fine. I see people like you who think like that all the time and find it amusing that they are all middle managers.

      a spook who sits by the door

      by brooklynbadboy on Mon Nov 01, 2010 at 11:32:26 AM PDT

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      •  In other words (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kurt, Deep Harm

        she made the kind of life choices that moral conservatives regard as virtuous.

        The schools will probably teach kindergartners to play nice with everyone. — Will Phillips, on how marriage equality would affect education

        by ebohlman on Mon Nov 01, 2010 at 03:25:09 PM PDT

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      •  come on (0+ / 0-)

        The story starts out a single mother not a widow. After the article details the individuals current and previous life status the topic becomes: "All these things, the low pay, the awful hours, the lack of job security, the physical injury risk, the lack of benefits, have caused my friend to question her belief in the work ethic."

        The individual has worked as a security guard her entire career according to the article. How much effort is involved in being a security guard? I would bet that most people that are security guards in the mall are also studying or have plans to be doing something different in 10 years. Unless she was a security guard that needed special training what makes her so special that she could not be replaced easily (high turnover jobs typically have crappy pay).

        Companies are not responsible for people. They exist to make a profit. Without a profit they close and everyone that works for them looses the job they had. Notice I said "the job they had" and not "there job". The company owns the job and we work it. We are not genetically linked to our job and we are not forced to work for any company. Its all personal choice and decisions. That is why some people are rich one day and poor another. The great thing about America is we can be rich again with "smart hard work". We do not need the "correct" blood, parents or culture. Stop with the excuses and fix what you do not like about your life. Stop blaming and expecting other people to fix your problems.  

         

        •  Spoken like a true copier salesman. (0+ / 0-)

          I've worked on Wall Street for ten years now and the only people I ever hear talk like you are people who are selling appliances.

          People who make real money understand this shit either gambling or organized crime. The Horatio Algers only exist in comic books and most big money people are either born into in, lucked into in, or achieved it through some form of swindle.

          The only people who spout the sort of tripe you are talking about are people who have never made real money but are always convinced they will one day. Joe the Plumber types.

          a spook who sits by the door

          by brooklynbadboy on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:40:19 PM PDT

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    •  I hope you feel like shit (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kurt

      when you find out this woman's husband was killed and that's why she's in a bad spot.

    •  For assuming that the lack of a breadwinning male (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kurt

      in her life was due to sexual irresponsibility, even though the original post clearly states that it's because said breadwinning male was killed in an industrial accident, you get a donut.

      The schools will probably teach kindergartners to play nice with everyone. — Will Phillips, on how marriage equality would affect education

      by ebohlman on Mon Nov 01, 2010 at 03:28:17 PM PDT

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      •  Maybe I am being dippy but.. (0+ / 0-)

        "the original post clearly states that it's because said bread winning male was killed in an industrial accident,"

        I have read the article 3 times. Maybe I am blocking out the widow part because I simply do not see the part about her husband being dead? Besides I am commenting on the ethical pay topic not the tough break 1 out of 100 really have. I feel sorry for people who have difficult times but most Americans dig their hole themselves. To blame capitalism is just an excuse to not commit yourself to making your life successful and happy.

        •  Not that it really mattered, (0+ / 0-)

          because she read the post and I didn't want to remind her of it. But apparently, it was relevant to you how her children were born.

          I don't see that as important. Because it isn't.

          a spook who sits by the door

          by brooklynbadboy on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:44:44 PM PDT

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