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View Diary: Brace yourselves: we have a war on our hands... (345 comments)

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  •  The people have spoken... for January. (17+ / 0-)

    They elected the current Congress to serve through December, and they will continue to do so.

    Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

    by pico on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:26:51 AM PDT

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    •  Perhaps... but Nov 2012 is just two years away. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      auapplemac

      Maybe if we hadn't passed healthcare after the Scott Brown bloody nose we wouldn't be looking at tonight's massive losses.

      Are we smart enough to learn from our mistakes?

      Let's remember - if get a pasting like this in 2012 the Republicans will have a very solid majority in the Senate and perhaps a filibuster proof majority.

      •  lol, if you say so. (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aquarius40, vcmvo2, pengiep, jayden, flhiii88

        But no, that's not the case.  The class of 2010 is going to be judged on its own (likely gridlocked) performance, and Obama will likely coast to victory either way.

        Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

        by pico on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:39:09 AM PDT

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        •  The president is the face of government (4+ / 0-)

          and the right has pretty good control of multiple traditional and new media outlets.

          Who do you think will get the blame for gridlock?

          •  He has also been curiously unwilling (6+ / 0-)

            to call out individual republicans and draw a clear line between himself and their bullshit.

            That won't help with the old MSM bias...

            I think I'm gonna just go hide under my bed the next 2 years /not snark

            •  That's his personality (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              kj in missouri, neroden, princss6

              he is fundamentally not someone who is into "calling out"...he does it now and then I think just to throw some "red meat" to the "base," but it never seems like he really has his heart in it. His thing is being conciliatory, bridging divides...which is just not possible with today's Republicans.

              "All governments lie, but disaster lies in wait for countries whose officials smoke the same hashish they give out." --I.F. Stone

              by Alice in Florida on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 08:08:10 AM PDT

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              •  Guess we have the wrong President. (0+ / 0-)

                Before I arouse the Hillary fanatics, let me say that she has pretty much the same personality as far as I can tell.

                I don't know how to get a GOOD candidate through the Democratic Primaries. As long as they're dominated by Iowa and New Hampshire there's probably no chance.

                -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

                by neroden on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 04:18:36 PM PDT

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          •  We SHOULD do something about media. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kj in missouri

            and the right has pretty good control of multiple traditional and new media outlets.

            For the 40 years I've been watching the Republicans whine about the "liberal media," I have never seen a Democrat in a leadership position say that if the GOP really thought the media was against them, they'd have to be masochistically begging to be humiliated to give this enemy so much ammunition. What benefit does the Democratic Party get from allowing the Republicans to lie about such an important link between the real world and the electorate?

            We should be able to command enough airtime to challenge the Republicans, if they really want to balance the budget, why aren't they willing to cancel Bush's tax cuts for millionaires? Why don't they ask if the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are really worth the deficit spending? What do they hope to accomplish by keeping marijuana illegal?

            The Tea Partisans will have to choose between their dogma and serving their constituents. The more we refuse to let them lie about the media, the harder that dilemma will be.

            Greg McKendry, Linda Kraeger, Dr. George Tiller, Steven Johns. Victims of Wingnut violence

            by Judge Moonbox on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 06:44:32 AM PDT

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            •  What do you suggest we do about the media? (0+ / 0-)
              •  Here's what I'd do. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                neroden

                Perhaps it would be a bad move to go after the media directly--especially after this election.

                However, we can expose the Republicans' two faces on this:
                We can say that if the Republicans actually BELIEVED the media was against them, they would anticipate that certain actions would give this enemy too much ammunition.

                In the 40 years I've been watching, I haven't seen any Repubs warn others that a proposed action or candidate would be too much trouble.

                Therefore, they either know the media bias business is a lie, or they're masochistically begging to be humiliated.

                Greg McKendry, Linda Kraeger, Dr. George Tiller, Steven Johns. Victims of Wingnut violence

                by Judge Moonbox on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 07:51:47 AM PDT

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                •  I bet you can't get most readers her (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  neroden

                  to sit still for a detailed explanation of this theory, never mind an independent voter who's a reasonable target for politicians in the next election.

                  •  Why Not? (0+ / 0-)

                    Me:

                    However, we can expose the Republicans' two faces on this:
                    We can say that if the Republicans actually BELIEVED the media was against them, they would anticipate that certain actions would give this enemy too much ammunition.

                    Millennium Hand and Shrimp:

                    I bet you can't get most readers her
                    to sit still for a detailed explanation of this theory, never mind an independent voter who's a reasonable target for politicians in the next election.

                    Is this concise enough for you? "Either the Republicans know this media bias talk is a lie, or they're masochistically begging to be humiliated."

                    Greg McKendry, Linda Kraeger, Dr. George Tiller, Steven Johns. Victims of Wingnut violence

                    by Judge Moonbox on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 06:07:05 PM PDT

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              •  I tell everyone to abandon TV and US newspapers (0+ / 0-)

                Go to UK newspapers and the Internet (as many sites as possible) if they want the truth.

                It's retail-level, but it's the best I can do.  Maybe I'm creating Paulites, but that's way better than Beck/Limbaugh fascist types.

                -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

                by neroden on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 04:20:04 PM PDT

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        •  BTW, just to harsh your mellow, in 2012 (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Odysseus, auapplemac, mconvente

          there will be 23 Democrat and 10 Republican seats up for election.

          Just keeping the status quo would require a wave election in the Democrats' favor (just as 2006 went very strongly for Democrats.)

          In an even election Democrats can expect to lose perhaps 5 seats (incumbency has its value.)

          In a repeat of 2010 Democrats would lose about 10 to 15 seats, giving the Republicans easy control of the senate and perhaps the ability to beat a filibuster.

          •  Good luck with that. (5+ / 0-)

            I don't expect 2012 to be a complete reversal of this year, but you may be surprised what happens when we get increased voter turnout due to presidential candidates + two years of a Republican record in the House that will likely be considerably less than stellar.

            Seriously, good luck.  You'll need it if you want to see anything like you're predicting.

            Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

            by pico on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:58:19 AM PDT

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            •  Predicting 2012 now based on your (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Odysseus, auapplemac, neroden, Broadview

              guesses about what the Republicans in charge of the House will do over the next two years and how voters will react to that is an exercise in futility.

              In addition, I tend to agree with the position that since most people don't pay very much attention to politics (unless crazed jihadis fly planes into buildings or there's a presidential impeachment and a zaftig brunette who plays with cigars and keeps semen stained dresses as mementos of her sexual adventures) what really matters is the economy.

              If the economy isn't significantly better in 2 years Obama and the Democrats will almost certainly be blamed.  The president is the face of the government and most voters won't even know that Republicans control the House.

              If the economy is better, it's an open question whether Obama and the Democrats can take credit, whether House Republicans can say that they forced Obama and the Democrats to do the right thing and they take the credit, or whether incumbents on both sides of the aisle will benefit.

            •  Let me harsh further... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              drewfromct, Broadview
              1. The Republicans did very well in state legislatures and governorships.  Redistricting is coming up and they are going to have a lot of control.  Last time was after the 2000 elections when Bush had almost no coat tails so they're going to increase their advantage.
              1. California passed Proposition 20 which puts House redistricting in the hands of a supposedly non-partisan board.  Assuming that it really is non-partisan California won't be gerrymandered in favor of Democrats any more but Texas (the biggest red state) will remain gerrymandered in favor of Republicans.

              This means that the next 10 years are going to be heavily weighted against Democrats in the House and in state legislatures.  That also means that there will be fewer opportunities to develop local politicians for state or national level offices - fewer good experienced Democrats running for Senate, Governor, or even President.

              In short, for the Republicans, this election is going to be a gift that keeps on giving for the next 10 years and perhaps even longer.

              •  More Republican governors=more Republicans (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                kj in missouri, neroden

                responsible for state and local deficits, tax increases, loss of services....given the economic situation, which likely won't be much better in two years (which means there will be a LOT of middle class folks slipping into the underclass), it is quite possible for there to be another big wave going the other way....one thing is certain, and that is that nothing is certain (except the continual flow of more and more anonymous corporate money into campaigns--you can take that to the bank).

                "All governments lie, but disaster lies in wait for countries whose officials smoke the same hashish they give out." --I.F. Stone

                by Alice in Florida on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 08:17:51 AM PDT

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                •  Makes sense. That must explain (0+ / 0-)

                  why the Democrats intentionally lost all those governorships.

                  What?  What's that you say?  It wasn't intentional?

                  Let's face it - it's never good to lose an election.

                  Let's also remember - fewer Democratic governors means fewer good candidates to run for Pres / VP in 2012 (if Obama doesn't run or Biden drops out) and in 2016 and 2020.  Good people who might have won won't have the chance to develop themselves and their followings.  (Remember - from Lyndon Johnson to Bush jr., every single president was either a Governor or a VP first.)  

              •  That board is gonna be WEIRD. (0+ / 0-)

                Have you looked into the method of its selection?  We have never seen anything like the California Redistricting Commission before....

                -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

                by neroden on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 04:21:39 PM PDT

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            •  To the average voter... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              blueoasis

              There will be no "Republican record."

              We're looking down the barrel of 2 years of gridlock, and Republicans can make themselves look very good by running superficially popular legislation with unpalatable poison pills attached into their certain death in "the Democrat-controlled Senate."

              I don't believe that many non-political junkies are going to see a Democratic President, Democratic Senate, Republican House and think "man, these Republicans don't know how to lead."  

              Those who support banning cocaine are no better than those who support banning cheeseburgers

              by EthrDemon on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 08:18:09 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  interrupting (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              pico

              just to say, thanks Pico, and personally, i'm looking forward to these next two years.  there's plenty of work to do and 14,000 messages to craft.  the spotlight is going to be sharp, let's take it.

              great diary.  have a good one, Pico!

              "From single strands of light we build our webs." ~kj

              by kj in missouri on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 10:20:59 AM PDT

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          •  The adjective is "Democratic." (4+ / 0-)
            "Democrat" is the noun. If you want to interact here civilly, please learn that, and act accordingly.
        •  Coast to victory (4+ / 0-)

          Are you delirious? We just lost the most seats ever. And You think he is going to coast to victory.

          " Pain is the cracking of the shell that encloses your understanding. Its bitter potion your inner physcians uses to heal its sick self.

          by itsnotmyfault on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 06:39:09 AM PDT

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          •  A lot can happen in two years (0+ / 0-)

            A mishandled impeachment?  But it's hard to believe that the Republicans would be so stupid after seeing how Clinton survived that.

            An economic recovery that Obama gets credit for?

            Further economic deterioration that the voters blame Republicans for?

            It's not impossible at all that Obama will coast to victory.

            But just assuming it off the cuff now is inane, I agree.

            •  Darryl Issa is champing at the bit to go (0+ / 0-)

              after Obama on some trumped up impeachment charges. This will occupy a lot of mind space and I think will be allowed to continue because it placates the racists in the Repukelikan party, especially the TeaBaggers.

        •  The president will only "coast to victory" (0+ / 0-)

          if there is a stunning turnaround in the economy or the Republicans truly outdo themselves in screwing up between now and 2012 (and are unable to find a credible nominee--which Sarah Palin obviously would not be).  

          "All governments lie, but disaster lies in wait for countries whose officials smoke the same hashish they give out." --I.F. Stone

          by Alice in Florida on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 08:04:37 AM PDT

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      •  ?????? (0+ / 0-)

        Maybe if we hadn't passed healthcare after the Scott Brown bloody nose we wouldn't be looking at tonight's massive losses.

        Given the Republicans's ability to outspend us, do you really think that they wouldn't have pejoratized anything else we would have done????

        If I had to do the last two years over, I would have had Obama go for Health Care Reform, BUT I would have made the Republicans give the bill the same Straight Up or Down vote they demanded for the partisan hacks and ideological extremists that Bush nominated to the Federal bench 4 years earlier.

        Greg McKendry, Linda Kraeger, Dr. George Tiller, Steven Johns. Victims of Wingnut violence

        by Judge Moonbox on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 06:36:53 AM PDT

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        •  You can demand anything you want (0+ / 0-)

          but how would you have enforced it?

          •  How Obama could have gotten an Up or Down vote. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            neroden

            Me:

            BUT I would have made the Republicans give the bill the same Straight Up or Down vote

            Millennum Hand and Shrimp:

            You can demand anything you want but how would you have enforced it?

            I think that the Republicans would have responded to the threat that if they didn't give Health Care Reform and the Stimulus Bill a straight up or down vote, he'd say that they know their "liberal media" slogan is a lie--that if they really believed it, they would anticipate that this media would not let them get away with a filibuster.

            Greg McKendry, Linda Kraeger, Dr. George Tiller, Steven Johns. Victims of Wingnut violence

            by Judge Moonbox on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 07:39:28 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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