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  •  In fact, though, many of those examples.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    neroden

    ...were widely seen to hurt the Republican candidates (Buck comes to mind), and were brought about to show that the Tea Party was more intolerant than they were letting on.  But does that show that gays hurt Democrats? No, to the contrary.  

    "All along the watchtower, princes kept the view..."

    by Alec82 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:37:30 AM PDT

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    •  I'm not arguing that "gays hurt Democrats", (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      vcmvo2, neroden

      nor was VE above.  We're trying to assess to what extent these issues were on the radar of conservative voters, which they clearly were, and whether that contributed to some of their disjointed pool of motivations.  I don't know, and that's the scope of the discussion here.

      Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

      by pico on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:42:10 AM PDT

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      •  Well but that is.. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        neroden

        ...in fact, a "gays hurt Democrats" argument, because the implicit suggestion is that the issue resulted in an increase in conservative turnout that hurt Democratic candidates and causes.  I'm sure that abortion contributed to their turnout, but no one is suggesting we had a national referendum on Roe v Wade or that "abortion hurt the Democrats."  You are far too forgiving of the party, that would blame you (and the rest of us) in an instant to justify its coming course of inaction (or worse) on LGBT issues.  That game has been played before.  

        What I find fascinating is that we will probably not be treated to diaries blaming poor African American turnout on this year's losses, or women for supporting more Republicans.  And yet here we are again, debating whether gays injured the party.  I think it is revealing that the question is even asked, given the context.    

        "All along the watchtower, princes kept the view..."

        by Alec82 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:49:27 AM PDT

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        •  Uh, no. Increased voter motivation (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          vcmvo2, neroden

          for one party has nothing to do with whether an issue impacted turnout or performance by another party.  As for whether "we'd" be having this discussion about other issues... who is "we"?  Me?  VE?  VE is pretty far to the left (even for this site) and is asking a perfectly legitimate question given that this is a diary specifically about LGBT issues.   What exactly is "revealing" about that? You need to stop reading every discussion as a potential front in some kind of ideological war.

          It looks like you're trying to make this an argument, and I'm not getting drawn into an argument with you over this.  I made a mistake in encouraging VE's comment because this diary's about NOM, I'm trying to keep it about NOM and what we can do to counter what's likely to be a full-throttle effort to overturn our progress on marriage equality.  If you want to write a preemptive diary on why the LGBT voters aren't to blame for what happened this week, you can lock horns with Flauten above.

          Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

          by pico on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:54:31 AM PDT

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          •  He specifically referred to "tonight's losses" (0+ / 0-)

            Anyway, I don't care to have a discussion about it.  As you said, perhaps you should have dropped it if you felt it was off topic.  So I will not answer your question about why I found it revealing, although I think the answer should be obvious.

            Night.

            "All along the watchtower, princes kept the view..."

            by Alec82 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:59:26 AM PDT

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            •  It's not particularly obvious. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              vcmvo2, neroden

              No one here, least of all VE (who did, in fact, ask the same question about other issues) is trying to write a preemptive 'blame the gays' narrative.  That one will be written is undoubted (see Flauten, above), but that's not the conversation we were having here.

              Anyway.  'night.

              Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

              by pico on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:07:02 AM PDT

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