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View Diary: Why Democrats Lost (41 comments)

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  •  They blew the first year on HCR when people (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NoMoreLies, bluezen, Michael in Ohio

    were looking for jobs. That's all. Unemployed people don't have health Insurance at the top of their list.I know I didn't when I was.

    •  Worst part is... (3+ / 0-)
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      NoMoreLies, shann, viet vet

      Instead of pushing for single-payer and maybe ending up with a strong public option, they began with a weak public option and settled for no more than a mandate, which Obama actually campaigned against two years ago because insurance is unaffordable.

      "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time." -- Harry S. Truman

      by Michael in Ohio on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 10:30:48 AM PDT

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    •  Well, I agree with you (3+ / 0-)
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      GN1927, viet vet, Deep Texan

      that health care was very costly politically.  That's all we heard about for the first year of Obama's presidency.  However, if you're Obama, you're thinking to yourself that a 60-seat majority will only come about once in a generation, if that; and that health care is now or never.  I understand why they made the decision to go with it, and I think they made the right choice for the long term, but I agree that it's a good chunk of why they lost.

      Oba-MA bumaye! Oba-MA bumaye!

      by fou on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 10:37:37 AM PDT

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      •  But... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        viet vet

        The Democrats ended up having to pass the bill through reconciliation anyway.  There was never a point at which a sixty-seat majority was ever going to be necessary to pass a bill.  So what we got was a dog-and-pony show that wasted a lot of time, exposed Obama as having sold us all out to the insurance industry, and that ultimately harmed women's rights as it limited abortion access.

        "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time." -- Harry S. Truman

        by Michael in Ohio on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 10:42:25 AM PDT

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        •  My exact thoughts. (1+ / 0-)
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          Michael in Ohio

          They could do a Health Insurance gift if they wanted too.

        •  Wrong. (3+ / 0-)
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          GN1927, viet vet, Deep Texan

          The Democrats only had to pass part of the bill through reconciliation.  Recall that in the Senate, Reid was able to defeat the filibuster.  The house then passed that bill with reconciliation add-ons.  The core of the Health Care bill is a real and durable law.  It's not subject to the sunset restrictions of reconciliation.

          Oba-MA bumaye! Oba-MA bumaye!

          by fou on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 10:45:07 AM PDT

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          •  Wrong. (1+ / 0-)
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            viet vet

            The bill had to pass the Senate through reconciliation.  Yes, the House amended it afterward, but the Senate still had to pass the bill through reconciliation because it couldn't be bothered to get an up-or-down vote otherwise.

            You don't know half as much as you pretend to.

            "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time." -- Harry S. Truman

            by Michael in Ohio on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 10:59:18 AM PDT

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            •  I don't think so. (2+ / 0-)
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              GN1927, Deep Texan

              The bill had to pass the Senate through reconciliation.

              This statement is just factually incorrect.  The Democrats defeated a Republican filibuster in the Senate and passed a health care bill.  That bill then passed the House with assurances that it would be later amended through reconciliation in the House and Senate.  Recall that the House cast two votes (well actually, three but that's another matter): one one to pass the unreconciled Senate bill and another to pass the reconciliation amendments that then later passed the Senate.  The unreconciled portion of the bill is now the meat of the law, and it is not subject to any sunset provision.  Why do you think the yahoos are bothering to challenge it in court?  If it were passed via reconciliation, they could just let it expire.

              I watched every second of this process.  I 100% certain of what I'm talking about.  Go back and familiarize yourself with the record.

              Oba-MA bumaye! Oba-MA bumaye!

              by fou on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 11:33:56 AM PDT

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              •  I know you don't. (0+ / 0-)

                Nevertheless, you don't know half as much as you think you do about how the bill finally passed.  After-the-fact amendments helped solidify the bill's status as a law on the books until it is repealed, or overturned in the courts.  But it still had to pass the Senate through reconciliation.  It never went through the normal process in that legislative body because the Democrats coddled the Republicans by joining filibuster threats if it wasn't watered down sufficiently enough — and they still didn't get a single Republican vote.

                Follow your own advice.  I watched the same sick process unfold, and you are spinning it to fit your interpretation.

                "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time." -- Harry S. Truman

                by Michael in Ohio on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 11:40:48 AM PDT

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                •  No I'm not. (0+ / 0-)

                  You initially said that the Health Care bill passed via reconciliation.  That is factually incorrect.  Of course passing the Senate version of the bill required assurances that it be amended via reconciliation, but that's very different than saying flatly that the entire bill passed via reconciliation.

                  The bill had to pass the Senate through reconciliation.

                  Not the initial bill.  Reid and the Democrats overcame a filibuster threat with sixty votes.  That bill then passed the House.

                  The fact is Democrats passed a durable Health Care law, with amendments passed through reconciliation.

                  Oba-MA bumaye! Oba-MA bumaye!

                  by fou on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 11:59:36 AM PDT

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                  •  Sure you are. (0+ / 0-)

                    You demonstrated how little you choose to know about how the final health insurance bill was passed, and in an effort to avoid embarrassment, proceeded to spin things to the point where it became a lie.

                    "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time." -- Harry S. Truman

                    by Michael in Ohio on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:49:43 PM PDT

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                    •  What lie? (0+ / 0-)

                      If you're going to accuse someone of lying, prove it.  Of course you can't, because I haven't lied.  You've asserted that I lied when I haven't either you're dense, or because you're the liar.

                      Oba-MA bumaye! Oba-MA bumaye!

                      by fou on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 03:16:32 PM PDT

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                      •  Let it not be said... (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        viet vet

                        Let it not be said that I can't admit to being wrong.  You were correct after all.  The Senate bill did, apparently, pass by a vote of 60-39, according to GovTrack.us.

                        I apologize for suggesting that you had lied.

                        "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time." -- Harry S. Truman

                        by Michael in Ohio on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 06:02:18 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

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