Skip to main content

View Diary: Progressives Caucus remains intact, becomes a plurality of House Dems (292 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Some people (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BruinKid, Dunvegan, lgmcp, raincrow, erush1345

    don't realize that people join Blue Dogs because they have unfavorable districts and need the cover.  They don't join Blue Dogs because they're inherently conservative--if they were, they'd run as Rs.

    You simply don't win MS-4 if you're anything but a Blue Dog.  So some people cheer the loss of a Blue Dog.  I cheer the loss of Democrats ever winning that seat again.

    "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided." --Barack Obama, June, 2008

    by oldskooldem on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:08:30 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Either 21 or 22 of the 34 House Dems (8+ / 0-)

      who voted against health care reform are GONE.

      A lot of good that turncoat backstabbing did for those SOBs' chances, betraying one of the Democratic Party's signature issues.  

      Good riddance, a-holes !

      Cheering when America loses Olympic bid, jeering when President wins Nobel Prize, apologizing to BP for wrecking our Gulf coast: Do Republicans hate America?

      by RobertInWisconsin on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:10:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's one public vote (5+ / 0-)

        Thing of the hundreds of less noticeable votes by which they voted with us.  You simply can't get any non-African American Rep in Mississippi to vote for health care.  They won't get elected and if they do get elected they're going to lose.  Period.

        "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided." --Barack Obama, June, 2008

        by oldskooldem on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:12:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  There is something to be said for fighting... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Odysseus, James Kresnik

          The good fight and taking one for the team. If a public option had been on the table, I don't care if every single blue dog lost their seat immediately following the vote, it would have been an political reality altering moment not seen since the Civil Rights Act.

          Sometimes it's the job of an elected representative to represent the best interests of his district, and his party, not what he thinks is going to get him re-elected. You've got to move the goal posts when you have the chance, because the other team has been moving them every chance they've had

          Long story short, I'd rather have a one-term wonder that enacted lasting memorable progressive change that people would remember for generations than a perennial winner that is more likely to support tax cuts for big business than repealing DADT.

          •  A one term wonder (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            pelagicray

            doesn't work if everything is reversed 2 years later.  Luckily, due to Republican ineptitude, we still have the Senate... and President Obama's veto pen.

            "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided." --Barack Obama, June, 2008

            by oldskooldem on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:42:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  But it is extremely rarely reversed... (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Odysseus, fumie, kurt, James Kresnik

              For example, how many legitimate plays have been made at Social Security? How many do you think would be made at putting DADT back? How many do you think would be made considering the pretty large support for a public option, specially once people get used to not having to worry about losing their job and their health care at the same time.

              Progressive policies are popular and are rarely legislatively attacked once enacted, even if Republicans talk a big game because it fires up the base.

              Why are they able to talk big game against HCR? Because unless you're under the age of 26, or have a pre-existing condition most people only saw their premiums go up by about 20$ a month.

              Half-measures aren't popular and then becomes attack fodder for the other side. Hell, a large portion of Dems have been running on the back of Social Security and the Civil Rights Act since they were enacted. It'd be nice to have something to run on that was put in place in my generation.

        •  It depends on the blue dog in question (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kurt

          Lincoln Davis who was defeated last night is a good example of one that won't be missed for much, but I'm sure you could search and find a few votes where he voted the right way (not very many though).

          •  There are two questions you should ask (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Odysseus, erush1345
            1. Did he vote the right way more than the Republican in the seat will vote?

            The answer is yes to every single Blue Dog.

            1. Could anyone more liberal get elected in that seat?

            For some Blue Dogs, the answer is yes.  For some, its no.  For some, its 'maybe'.

            I'd suggest for the 'no's' and 'maybe's', you take your Blue Dog and be happy with it.  Maybe he'll ever sit and bark for you once in a while.

            "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided." --Barack Obama, June, 2008

            by oldskooldem on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:51:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  And when the Blue Dog loses... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              James Kresnik

              To an actual Republican, and we have nothing to show for it, really what is the point? We had "control" of all of Congress due to blue dogs, yet it did nothing but make us look bad at the end of the day.

              Fantastic. The Blue Dogs pretty much only ever get elected in waves, when someone much more progressive could have been waved in just easily, but at least the progressive may have got something done while they were there and made the district just a bit more blue in the process. Sure, you have the odd terrible guy making it out of the primaries like most of the Tea Partiers, but again, you could have elected Kos over Christine O'Donnell in Delaware.

              Blue dogs work within the established mindset of the district, progressive attempt to change it for the better. I know which I'd rather have.

            •  Hmm not my Congressional district (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Odysseus

              but regarding Davis I would say the answer to the first is "yes, barely" and to the second "yes, definitely on fiscal issues, but probably not on social issues by much".

              •  Then that's exactly who you should work for (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                bythesea, erush1345

                someone more liberal on fiscal issues, but not much on social issues.  That's the "maximum liberal electable by your district".  And we should be happy with that person if we can get them in office... not be pissed that they're not liberal enough for northern districts.

                "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided." --Barack Obama, June, 2008

                by oldskooldem on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 03:27:59 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Your argument works only if it is assume (0+ / 0-)

                  that working people in red districts who voted Dem are uniformly conservative on all issues. I would bet that most right-wing districts are conservative on social issues and more left-wing on economic issues. Most Blue Dogs appear to be too conservative on economic issues. There were way too many Blue Dogs who got elected on a economic populist/social conservative message then started cutting deals with global bankers and job exporters.

                  Every politician in America is sounding like that mayor in Jaws. -global citizen

                  by James Kresnik on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 06:29:40 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I agree to some extent (0+ / 0-)

                    about red district voters being more left-wing on economic issues.  They're still not as left wing as they should be given their socioeconomic status.. but they're left wing enough to get someone elected.  But the Blue Dogs tend to vote in ways that they think will get them elected in their district.  Some districts tend to be populist (for example, that formula has always worked well in Louisiana and Arkansas) and some aren't populist (e.g. in Alabama, voters tend to prefer Republican-light candidates for whatever reason).

                    My point is that you have to match the district.  Standing on principle is stupid.  Find the most liberal challenger who can still get elected.

                    "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided." --Barack Obama, June, 2008

                    by oldskooldem on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 06:45:32 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You're soft-peddling the depth of fustration (0+ / 0-)

                      with Blue Dogs and economic policy in their local districts as Louisiana and Arkansas Democatic reps have consistently sold their districts out on economic issues.

                      Let's assume that your conclusions are correct, then it means that those districts are composed of people who are fundamentally opposed to the Democratic platform and that any Democrats that they produce will consistently sabotage the party platform and the party should pursue other, more effective strategies for legislative success.

                      Every politician in America is sounding like that mayor in Jaws. -global citizen

                      by James Kresnik on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 07:15:02 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Yes, that is what I'm suggesting. (0+ / 0-)

                        I would rather Dems that sabotage parts of the platform but vote with us most of the time, than be in the minority with a pure as white caucus.

                        "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided." --Barack Obama, June, 2008

                        by oldskooldem on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 07:32:49 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Your strategy is ultimately self-defeating. (0+ / 0-)

                          The problem is that using villain rotation and procedural monkey-wrenching they fundamentally dismantle or distort virtually the entire economic platform, removing all but the most corporate-socialist policies. To add insult the injury, they irritate their constituents so much with this back-stabbing that it is inevitable that they are replaced by a Republican.

                          This strategy is, quite frankly, ridiculous. It is a demonstrated electoral and legislative failure with next to no redeeming value for advancing anything other than corporate socialism, i.e. corportism. It needs to be junked in total and replaced with something else entirely.

                          Every politician in America is sounding like that mayor in Jaws. -global citizen

                          by James Kresnik on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 07:46:41 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

    •  That's how I felt about Teague (6+ / 0-)

      in his R+5 district on Southern NM.  He couldn't be there for us on healthcare, but he WAS there on stimulus and wall st reform and credit cards and student loans. Pearce, R-neanderthal, is just a disaster.

      "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

      by lgmcp on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:12:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yep... That's a potential "rematch" (5+ / 0-)

        district too.  So are you not going to support the D because he's not ideologically pure?  Or would you rather pick up a seat in a "swing, but lean slightly right" district.

        For that matter in 2012, maybe someone slightly more liberal than Teague could win that seat.  I'll give people that.  But if he does, he won't be able to hold it.  Teague at least has a fighting chance to hold that seat in a non-bloodbath year.

        "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided." --Barack Obama, June, 2008

        by oldskooldem on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:14:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  This is idiotic. (0+ / 0-)

          It is increasingly clear that red-district voters care deeply about populist economic issues, which is exactly where the Blue Dogs crossed the party the most. Your personal definition of ideological purity is asinine and poorly applied to the situation at hand.

          Every politician in America is sounding like that mayor in Jaws. -global citizen

          by James Kresnik on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 06:32:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site