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View Diary: Poll: It's not just Democratic politicians who lack a spine (290 comments)

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  •  I don't see "will" in the democrats (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, Aspe4, CWalter, output

    outside the constant pornographic celebration of compromising.

    America's Priorities 11.8.10: Torture - Yes, Marijuana - No.

    by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 09:09:28 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  the point is that (8+ / 0-)

      many progressives seem to want various things pass which pretty much literally have no chance of getting passed...but only if Obama would do...something...then maybe the votes might magically appear.

      I think that's what gets people frustrated is that when Obama can't get something because he literally doesn't have the votes to do it, people get all enraged over it.

      •  you're right, to a point. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CWalter, Whatithink

        progressives seem to want various things pass which pretty much literally have no chance of getting passed

        the problem is that those "various things" like getting out of iraq, imposing meaningful regulations on wall street, medicare for all, etc., reflect the will of the people. all of the people; not just self-ID'd progressives.

        so if "our" representatives are unable to do the will of the great majority of the american people, why are you ragging on progressives? instead of asking us to lower, or even suspend our reasonable expectations, wouldn't your time be better spent making the dems accountable for failing us?

        msnbc = fox = bullshit

        by output on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 09:19:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Here we'll agree for a moment (0+ / 0-)

        I am not holding my breath on Obama doing these things.

        It's the other Democratic politicians who are not getting up to speed.

        America's Priorities 11.8.10: Torture - Yes, Marijuana - No.

        by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 09:22:58 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  The Great Argument (5+ / 0-)

        Here is how it goes:

        Kos Person #1: Perfection was not achieved.  Obama is a sellout.

        Kos Person #2: Obama didn't have the votes. And what was done was significant.

        Kos Person #1:  Didn't have the votes my ass. If he had been tougher and used his bully pullpit, people like Ben Nelson would have caved.

        all exhanges from here on out become increasingly less civil. In additions, the claims become increasingly shakey.  In fact, by the end of this both people are pretty much just making stuff up. In the end HR's are used, or alternatively competing diaries are written.

        Kos Person #2:  Nothing was going to make Ben Nelson cave.  We didn't even have the votes in the House for the Public Option according to Mike Lux.

        Kos Person #1: We would have had them had them if we had used reconcilliation.  And Obama did "little" to clean up the economy. Obama just wasn't tough enough.

        Kos Person #2: You couldn't use reconciliation for the key parts of HCR.  Obama saved the country from a Depression, passed financial regulation, etc

        Kos Person #1: You are just not a real "Progressive."

        Kos Person #2:  Your a "Firebagger", a closet "Naderist"
        Repeat until December, 2012.

        Meanwhile, liberals supported Democrats in 2010 at their highest percentage since at least 1998, and the voted in the same proportion as in 2006.  As did African Americans and Hispanics.

        So the idea that the comments, the diaries, or even this site itself have any real impact is pretty absurd.

        But that won't stop us from pretending that it does.

        The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

        by fladem on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 09:27:31 AM PST

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      •  Who's saying President Obama is solely to blame? (0+ / 0-)

        many progressives seem to want various things pass which pretty much literally have no chance of getting passed...but only if Obama would do...something...then maybe the votes might magically appear.

        I think that's what gets people frustrated is that when Obama can't get something because he literally doesn't have the votes to do it, people get all enraged over it.

        I understand that current filibuster rules are inhibiting our ability to pass the best example of our agenda, and that a lot of blame squarely lays on the shoulders of the Senate.

        Didn't the President recently say that the filibuster needs to be reformed for the 112th Congress?  Am I to believe that he along with other Democrats weren't aware of this at the start of the 111th?  Obviously, the Executive doesn't get to tell the Legislative branch how to operate, but surely he has influence.

        What would our legislation in 2009 have looked like if we weren't beholden to the stranglehold of 41 Senators?

        Would we have had stronger health care reform?  A public option?  A medicare buy-in?

        Would the health care debate have been shortened, giving us more time to focus on other legislation (a jobs bill, wall street reform, immigration reform, DADT repeal, the DISCLOSE act, etc?)

        What achievements would we have been able to run on during the 2010 midterms if we were able to run on the best example of our agenda and not a weak-tea compromised version thereof?

        The Republicans and Conservadems got to sabotage our legislation from being as strong as it needed to be, and thus redefined to the public what a liberal agenda actually looks like.

      •  Ending DADT enforcement (0+ / 0-)

        doesn't need to be passed.  He could do it tomorrow, if he wanted to order it.

        Manage your campaign's calltime for FREE! - CalltimePro.com

        by jump23 on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 09:41:12 AM PST

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    •  Are you out of your fucking mind? (4+ / 0-)

      They passed HCR in an uphill battle that cost them dearly.  They saved the auto industry.  They passed a stimulus package.  They brought to an end combat operations in Iraq.

      WHAT THE FUCK ELSE DO YOU WANT?

    •  working people (0+ / 0-)

      I say this as an almost stereotypically middle class guy: a big problem could be because working people aren't the leaders.

      The people that lead in the democratic party are either wealthy or could get  a nice job somewhere.

      I think that is why the "rent is too damm high" guy went viral. Here was guy a clearly committed to not only helping but being a regular working person.

      So it is easy to compromise and avoid conflict (especially those in power) when you want to either be their friends or get a future job from them.

      in fact, you have incentives to sell out regular people and little to stay true to them.

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