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View Diary: GM IPO Underscores Success of Dem Policy (58 comments)

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  •  IPO is evidence that GM is stable (6+ / 0-)

    I'm not suggesting that the IPO will be a great investment opportunity for the middle class.  My point is that it would not be possible for GM to undertake an IPO in the absence of widespread confidence in GM's stability.

    •  But the thing is that you're not really (1+ / 0-)
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      checked into what this means to Americans - or doesn't mean to Americans.  The reality is that GM is a multi-national corporation with no real allegiance to this country.  Yes, they employ a lot of union workers who I personally felt should be given every chance to be employed when the question to bailout or not to bailout came up - but you have to be intellectually honest about what this IPO actually means.  It means that a multi-national and Wall Street will make a lot of money in one day.  That money, in the context of a global economy, may never end up being spend within the United States.  It is more likely, given the growth trends, that that money will be invested in China or India.  So, what did the bailout get Americans?  Some interest on the loan, but not necessarily much more than that - and it certainly doesn't give the average American the opportunity to ride on the coattails of international investment - or jobs that might really work for all of us.

      Just sayin'

      We gave CitiGroup billions of dollars - a chunk of which was invested in failing real estate speculation in Dubai - that doesn't help this country or the people of this country below the top 1-2%.  That helps the people of Dubai though!  Your tax dollars at work!  Fabu!

      •  I understand your frustration about the bigger (4+ / 0-)

        picture economic stress facing Americans, inclusiveheart, but perhaps, you are underestimating a little the devastating impact failure of GM, and Chrysler would have had on the rest of the economy.

        The entire upstream supply chain companies could have been wiped out.  And just the direct downstream distribution jobs linked to these two companies amounted to more than 1 million jobs at the time.

        Losing the upstream supply chain would probably have brought down Ford as well.  One high side estimate was that as much as 10% of our national employment was at risk from cascade effects and collateral damage.

        We have so many more direct things to be grumpy and cynical about, I feel that it's ok, to generously credit Democrats and even Obama for handling this aspect of the potentially catastrophic economic collapse as well as humanly possible.

        And, we are not out of the woods yet, as Bobswern keeps warning us still of the danger of a double dip in the credit markets, especially from these out of control credit default swaps.

        To the extent we erred in these rescue plans it appears that it would be not listening more to Paul Krugman, and Stiglitz that the stimulus was not greater.  But, the GOP was fighting us like crazy - so again, I don't think primary fault should be pointed in Democratic directions.

        Marc's key point is that the proper interpretation of this data is that voters are better off trusting Democrats than Republicans to handle these gargantun economic challenges.  In this regard, he spot on.  

        The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

        by HoundDog on Mon Nov 15, 2010 at 04:39:54 PM PST

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        •  No, I am not underestimating the (1+ / 0-)
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          devastation.  I fully supported the bailout - more fully than the White House did IIRC.  But I believe in intellectual honesty and selling an IPO as a big victory for Americans is probably not intellectually honest.

          The new plant that is being built - BIG win imo - assuming that they don't screw the unions - but the IPO - not necessarily.

          •  OK, I see your point. I agree we shouldn't (2+ / 0-)
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            inclusiveheart, jsfox

            false propaganda.  I was just trying to make sure we get some credit for some true good things.  

            I've not been a Party cheerleader here, and have complained about a lot of shortcomings.  

            But, I'm growing concerned that the most articulate of our iconoclastic "irritants" that have kept the Party honest, have been so effective, and the administration has slipped up so much, that we're in danger of a downward spiral, punishing Democrats excessively, (hard to imagine) but rewarding Republicans way to much (definitely happening.)

            Thanks for clarifying and being polite about my challenge.

            The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

            by HoundDog on Mon Nov 15, 2010 at 04:59:24 PM PST

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            •  I think that our problem here is that (1+ / 0-)
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              the White House communications office keeps speaking to a very small, elite audience of Wall Street financiers - which is why I felt the need to challenge this IPO news.  They keep speaking to the investment class rather than speaking to the middle and working class voters - and when they do try to speak to middle and working class folks they use things like IPOs that are so abstract to that audience that they appear to be tone deaf or disconnected.

              I think that that is the big problem with the iconoclasts - like Ezra Klein who is on my TV right now - that kid is about as wonkish and unable to connect as they come, imo.  I will never forget his insistence that a market solution for healthcare would drive costs down.  But that's a whole other discussion of the same problem.

              But I will just end with this thought: the lady who lives in a trailer with her two sons and ex-husband in Alabama and works for my Mother, doesn't give a shit about IPOs.  She does care about the fact that her ex-husband and two sons are living with her because she is the only one in the family who can secure reliable employment that can keep a roof over all of their heads - and the boys can't.  She's feeding them all, too.

              •  Excellent point. The White House and whole (1+ / 0-)
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                Democratic Party need major help on messaging.  And even policy.  Negotiation strategy, and a whole lot of real basic stuff one would expect a Presidential team to be fully stocked with.

                Maybe, these short-comings, are an unexpected side-effect of his spectacularly fast, and out-of-the-blue rise to success.

                Individually, he has such wonderful talents, but, in practice, his administration seems to be falling short of his potential.  I had been hoping that he might replace Rahm Emmanual with a much more senior and experience "old hand" like maybe Tom Daschle.  Rahm's second, is a fantastic task processer, but maybe not senior enough, to sit Obama down on his knee occassionally, and provide senior guidance, like a father, or grandfather.

                The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

                by HoundDog on Mon Nov 15, 2010 at 05:19:24 PM PST

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            •  Ok get the hell out of my head :) (1+ / 0-)
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              I've been starting to think the same thing.

              In the choice between changing ones mind and proving there's no need to do so, most people get busy on the proof.

              by jsfox on Mon Nov 15, 2010 at 05:13:21 PM PST

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