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View Diary: Speaking of pardons (updated) (300 comments)

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  •  Interesting statistic: (28+ / 0-)

    You can find it here. Neither George W. or Bill Clinton pardoned anybody in their first two years in office. So this appears to be a trend dating back about twenty years and four presidential terms.

    As in so many other cases, there appears to be a different standard applied to Barack Obama.

    Harry Reid: Float like Barney Fife, sting like Aunt Bea.

    by MeMeMeMeMe on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 06:24:49 PM PST

    •  It's the standard to which... (4+ / 0-)

      all Black men are held.

      But, since most people here are White, they don't really get that.

      James Carville is still offering him one of Hillary's testicles...so what do you expect around here?

      •  The diarist is a black man. n/t (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        IM, capelza, kovie

        Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 06:51:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  And, what does that change? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          magurakurin, amk for obama, moonpal

          You can be black and not get it, too.

          •  Your insinuation was perfectly clear. n/t (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kovie

            Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

            by Meteor Blades on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 07:02:36 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  What's that insinuation? (0+ / 0-)

              That black men are held to another standard?

              •  The insinuation was that the diarist... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                capelza

                ...doesn't know that black men are held to higher standards.

                Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

                by Meteor Blades on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 07:13:51 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Nope...sorry. Didn't say that at all. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  zizi

                  Comment:

                  It's the standard (double standard) to which...
                  all Black men are held.

                  But, since most people here are White (a fact), they don't really get that.

                  James Carville is still offering him one of Hillary's testicles...so what do you expect around here?

                  Do demonstrate where I even come close to insinuating anything about the diarist.  It would seem you simply come to that conclusion on your own.  

                  Do you deny the validity of the double standard?

                  •  Anybody who denies that black men... (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    IM, capelza

                    ...(and women) are held to a different standard is a fool. And the racial demographics of Daily Kos are well known. The point is you made this comment in a diary written by a black man and went on to say that this black man doesn't understand that black men are held to a different standard.

                    Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

                    by Meteor Blades on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 07:20:57 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Do tell me... (0+ / 0-)

                      How am I to know he is a black man?

                      •  you fucked up David, just admit it (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Matt Z

                        it was only a little fuck up.  for once when you thought that race had something to do with a newly invented reason to criticize the President you were wrong.  take your lumps.  99% of the rest of the time you'll be right.

                        A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

                        by bluefaction on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 07:35:41 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  Sorry I don't see why BBB being black has anythin (0+ / 0-)

                      to do with this. His diaries are some of the most unfair in their critique and they often hold out a definitely different standard for Obama from previous Presidents. So I am sorry I don't know if he agrees that black men are held to a different standard. from his writing either he doesn't or he is in denial. But I always find myself criticizing his views quite forcefully and I know he is black so what has that got to do with anything.

                      scientia potentia est - Francis Bacon "...knowledge itself is power."

                      by factPlusContextAlmostTruth on Thu Nov 25, 2010 at 09:44:13 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                •  You know what else... (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  magurakurin, zizi

                  You let people go around here and harass anyone who dares say anything about race relations in the US and the stereotypes that apply to Barack Obama...without any form of moderation.

                  I have been accused over and over again, along with others, of being a racist for speaking a truth.

                  Obama is black man living in America with all that implies.

                  I have never said that anyone who criticizes Obama is a racist.  I've never even seen that said here.  

                  But, many people are woefully ignorant of American history and the way black people continue to be treated (including President Obama) by the majority culture.

                  But, by all means.  You're the boss.  

                  •  Uh-huh. Here are just two recent examples... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    capelza

                    ...of letting people harass others over discussing racism "without any form of moderation" here and here.

                    Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

                    by Meteor Blades on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 07:37:12 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Two... (3+ / 0-)

                      That's amazing.

                      Might wanna come and visit Black Kos more often and see what folks are saying there.  You and I both know I'm not the only person to see the world in the terms I'm describing.  

                      Never have I said that people who have legitimate criticism of Obama are racist.  Not one single time.  

                      Yet, over and over again, we are told that RACE has nothing to do with anything.  It's like a new America has suddenly emerged with the election of a black President.  

                      Suddenly, the waves have parted and racial issues no longer exist.  Anyone who thinks the man is being treated with discrimination by the hostile media, by the sterotypical language, by the infantalization and the over-the-top criticism is a "race baiter."

                      Your site was once a stronghold of Liberal values.  It is no longer.  It's become a mosh pit of intolerance.

                      Respectfully...because I know you love this place, even if you work for it.  And, you know that I do to...since I spend so much time here.

                      Peace...

                      •  Two in the past two days. Not two ever. The... (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        capelza

                        ...number of people here who say that race has nothing to do with any of the attacks on Barack Obama is extremely small. And those who do so are fools. But not every criticism of him is based on his being African American.

                        Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

                        by Meteor Blades on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 07:48:44 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  You are... (2+ / 0-)

                          an incredibly intelligent and well-spoken individual whose words carry great weight, as they should.

                          You know as well as I do that my original comment insinuated nothing other than the constant and unrelenting criticisms of the President are out of control and whether it is always true or not, many believe (and I believe rightly so due to a clear pattern of historical discrimination) that this has much to do with the color of his skin.

                          Every single black man of importance in the last century was called a "Socialist" or a "Communist" and most often by figures within the US Government--A. Phillip Randolph, W.E.B Dubois, MLK and almost ever black intellectual one could name.

                          It was racist then and it is racist now.

                          Again, most respectfully, this group that you say is "small" and "fool(ish)" is operating quite successfully under the cover of legitimate concerns.  They are having a fucking field day...and good Kossacks...are leaving because of this.  You know this.

                          Re-read those comments to which you have provided links.  There are responses there that should be of value to everyone there in Kosland.

                          Address it, because the ugly is showing all too much.

                          •  Mandela was called communist (0+ / 0-)

                            and socialist even though he never uttered a socialist sentence. He just called for his people to be freed.  Powerful truth there. Code words like communist and socialist are so old they don't fool some of us who have lived enough and seen the depravities of white racism practiced with force.

                            scientia potentia est - Francis Bacon "...knowledge itself is power."

                            by factPlusContextAlmostTruth on Thu Nov 25, 2010 at 09:57:45 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  I agree with your writing here. (0+ / 0-)

                        "infantilization" is a new description I will use becasue I have seen a lot of it here re. Obama bashing.

                        scientia potentia est - Francis Bacon "...knowledge itself is power."

                        by factPlusContextAlmostTruth on Thu Nov 25, 2010 at 09:48:58 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  I agree MB is being quite unfair and using (0+ / 0-)

                    a double standard re your comments.

                    scientia potentia est - Francis Bacon "...knowledge itself is power."

                    by factPlusContextAlmostTruth on Thu Nov 25, 2010 at 09:46:35 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Some blacks hold other blacks (3+ / 0-)

                  to different standards than they do whites. That phenomenon with the white-dominant world view has existed among racial minority groups who have been subject to either slavery or colonialism. Internalized racism among Blacks and other minorities is more common than you think. The fact that someone is Black does not mean that they aren't capable of applying different standards to this president than they would to a white president.

          •  You being the standard of "getting it", of course (0+ / 0-)

            "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" --Alexander Hamilton

            by kovie on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 07:02:36 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Interesting how this crazy and creepy meme of how (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Jackson L Haveck, Hopefruit2

          if you criticize Obama, you're likely a white racist, has snowballed over the past few days. I and several others got accused of it last night by some of the usual offenders.

          Or, I should say, defenders. They really are scraping the bottom of the barrel. Isn't it about time they finally go "on strke" already?

          "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" --Alexander Hamilton

          by kovie on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 07:02:04 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  i have a theory about that (0+ / 0-)

            they didn't want to call you insane, so they were grasping for the possibility that you were merely racist.  since you can choose to stop being a racist and being insane is something you are just damned with.  it was a hopeful accusation of racism.

            i think i just called you nuts, right?  though in all seriously i regret that if i did.  i was REALLY tired last night and some shit that shouldn't have slipped out did.  but that diary was an amazing pile of outrageous nonsense.  and i now compare more than a few people here to the religious right who think jesus is returning so there can't be any such thing as global warming.

            A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

            by bluefaction on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 07:20:01 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  oops, type (0+ / 0-)

              "i think i just called you nuts, right?" was supposed to be "i think i just called you nuts last night, right?"

              A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

              by bluefaction on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 07:26:57 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Whatever (0+ / 0-)

              When a person has nothing meaningful to say, they often resort to labels. Like everyone else I do it too, but it's never something that reflects well upon oneself.

              "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" --Alexander Hamilton

              by kovie on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 07:43:02 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  You know what's crazy and creepy? (7+ / 0-)

            Using a moment of the President with his two darling daughters, an innocent moment of tradition that is a small slice of whimsy performed for our nation's children, to criticize the President for following the precedent of all presidents before him.

            I have my fair share of criticisms of how the administration is governing, but to use this moment to make an intellectually dishonest cheap shot, is Fox News-worthy in it's spin to not let the President or his family enjoy one fucking moment.

            Apparently President Obama has to do twice the work for half the credit.

            •  it's because he's so smart (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              hey mister, Matt Z

              it's like the smart kid in school.  they were always getting picked on.  when doing group work they got all the work dumped on them.  the rest of the students thought that the smart kids were the biggest losers in school.  meanwhile, the smart kid just kept working hard despite all the shit and grows up to be wildly successful while the other kids grow up to spend their lives complaining about how much their lives such and wondering why there are no smart kids around to fix everything.

              now they have a smart kid they can blame for everything and expect to fix everything.

              A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

              by bluefaction on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 07:50:56 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Yes (5+ / 0-)

              and it's not just on daily KOS. There is another hit piece on Huffington Post by Froomkin about the same issue. It just bothers some people to see this man with his two daughters in the Rose Garden sharing a light-hearted moment. I find that very disturbing, and yes it reflects an unhealthy "creepy" obsession and need to villify this man at every turn.

              Was there any major problem in the MSM with previous presidents pardoning Turkeys on Thanksgiving Eve? Please let me know if there was.

              •  need to villify this man at every turn (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                magurakurin, hey mister, Matt Z

                that is because they think that if they call him terrible names that it will motivate him to prove them wrong by doing whatever they want him to do

                they must have had some serious fucks for their parents

                A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

                by bluefaction on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 08:03:04 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Dan Froomkin, BAD MAN! (0+ / 0-)

                He very BAD MAN! He say bad things about Obama. BAD MAN!

                "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" --Alexander Hamilton

                by kovie on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 11:52:48 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  I guess Jimmy Carter (5+ / 0-)

            was one of the "defenders" who was scraping at the bottom of the barrel when he stated publicly that a significant amount of the animosity towards this president is race-based.

            •  Which obviously means (0+ / 0-)

              that ALL of it is race-based.

              Logic, my friend, has failed you.

              "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" --Alexander Hamilton

              by kovie on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 11:51:59 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Nope this defender is staying right here (0+ / 0-)

            I ain't goin nowhere and I will keep forcefully disagreeing with unfair and sometimes racist criticism of the President until I am banned or I just drop dead. So sue me. I don't whine and leave, I think and wage war on weak and erroneous thinking fueled by emotional deceptions and unparalleled ignorance from the league of Obama bashers who infest this site.

            scientia potentia est - Francis Bacon "...knowledge itself is power."

            by factPlusContextAlmostTruth on Thu Nov 25, 2010 at 10:04:29 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  You're certainly welcome to stay (0+ / 0-)

              But expect to be treated like everyone else here when you repeat OFA spin.

              Btw, when exactly was Gitmo closed? I forgot.

              "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" --Alexander Hamilton

              by kovie on Thu Nov 25, 2010 at 11:03:33 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  I had no idea what you were talking about here (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        zizi

        James Carville is still offering him one of Hillary's testicles...so what do you expect around here?

        And then I found the link: http://gawker.com/...

        I believe the expression goes: "Christ, what an asshole."

    •  Obama's supporters typically use the excuse (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      eglantine

      that his hands are tied, right wing noise machine, 60 votes, etc - fine. Then when you have absolute authority to do something, why not do it?

      I'm sure there is at least one person in the entire US that deserves a pardon. But just like the lack of recess appointments, or the neverending war in Afghanistan, Obama can never do any wrong no matter what.

      "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Gandhi

      by bay of arizona on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 06:36:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Clinton pardoned 42 people in... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      capelza, Onomastic

      ...his second year in office.

      Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 06:44:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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