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View Diary: Speaking of pardons (updated) (300 comments)

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  •  You're Meteor Blades...you tell me I'm DEAD WRONG (0+ / 0-)

    and cite a paper that shows I'm right.

    Thanks, dude.  Really.

    •  Your comment was: (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      IM, Rabbithead

      Most Presidents issue pardons at the end of their terms, not in the middle of them.  For obvious reasons.

      The paper shows (as does the Justice Dept. link for 1945 forward) that every President in the 20th and 21st centuries have issued pardons before the end of their first term, most of them granting some pardons in their first year in office.

      Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 07:27:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The last 3 Presidents... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        moonpal

        have issued them almost exclusively at the end of the term.  That is abundantly clear by the charts used to display the quantitative data.  And, by the way, the qualitative data in the article clearly demonstrates that the authors wrote the article to defend President Clinton's use of pardons...which were nearly all conducted at the end of his second term.  Which effectively dismantles their entire argument.

        •  The last three ... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          IM, Rabbithead

          Presidents:

          Bush II: 40% at the end of his terms.

          Clinton: 72% at the end of his terms.

          Bush I: 48% at the end of his term.

          Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

          by Meteor Blades on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 07:52:54 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  There are serious disparities... (0+ / 0-)

            in the data in this article and that found on the Justice department website.  

            •  I used the Justice Dept. data... (0+ / 0-)

              ...for precisely that reason.

              Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

              by Meteor Blades on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 08:34:15 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I think it's probably a bit more complicated... (0+ / 0-)

                than the popular belief, which I stated--and apparently Elliot Spitzer, also believes--and what we see in the data provided in both that article and the Justice Department website.

                I would imagine that in many cases (during the last 30-40 years (i.e. Carter-Bush) pardons were done when Presidents got around to them, or when they were politically expedient.  There are quite a number of articles in the bibliography of that article that would be interesting to read.

                In any event, I can't imagine that any good (political good) would come of Obama pardoning anyone in this toxic climate, let alone Wesley Snipes as some politically astute patriot demanded further down the thread.

                That said...using the Turkey pardoning to take another whack at Obama is just obscene.

        •  how does end of 2nd term affect any argument? (0+ / 0-)

          And, by the way, the qualitative data in the article clearly demonstrates that the authors wrote the article to defend President Clinton's use of pardons...which were nearly all conducted at the end of his second term.  Which effectively dismantles their entire argument.

          Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Mohandas K. Gandhi

          by Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 08:03:43 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Read the abstract.. (0+ / 0-)

            It tells you what the point of the research was and their conclusions simply point out that the critics were correct.

            •  What difference does it make if clinton did (0+ / 0-)

              nearly all his pardons, as you say, at the end of his second term?

              Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Mohandas K. Gandhi

              by Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 08:25:46 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm not sure what you're asking... (0+ / 0-)

                if you're referring to the article, there was a huge Republican outrage over Clinton's pardons.  They said that no other President had done so many pardons at the end of their term.  

                The article seems to show that they were right.  But, Bush I did quite a number like that too.  Reagan seems to have done pardons all across the board.

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