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View Diary: Speaking of pardons (updated) (300 comments)

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  •  The insinuation was that the diarist... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    capelza

    ...doesn't know that black men are held to higher standards.

    Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 07:13:51 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Nope...sorry. Didn't say that at all. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      zizi

      Comment:

      It's the standard (double standard) to which...
      all Black men are held.

      But, since most people here are White (a fact), they don't really get that.

      James Carville is still offering him one of Hillary's testicles...so what do you expect around here?

      Do demonstrate where I even come close to insinuating anything about the diarist.  It would seem you simply come to that conclusion on your own.  

      Do you deny the validity of the double standard?

      •  Anybody who denies that black men... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        IM, capelza

        ...(and women) are held to a different standard is a fool. And the racial demographics of Daily Kos are well known. The point is you made this comment in a diary written by a black man and went on to say that this black man doesn't understand that black men are held to a different standard.

        Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 07:20:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Do tell me... (0+ / 0-)

          How am I to know he is a black man?

          •  you fucked up David, just admit it (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Matt Z

            it was only a little fuck up.  for once when you thought that race had something to do with a newly invented reason to criticize the President you were wrong.  take your lumps.  99% of the rest of the time you'll be right.

            A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

            by bluefaction on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 07:35:41 PM PST

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        •  Sorry I don't see why BBB being black has anythin (0+ / 0-)

          to do with this. His diaries are some of the most unfair in their critique and they often hold out a definitely different standard for Obama from previous Presidents. So I am sorry I don't know if he agrees that black men are held to a different standard. from his writing either he doesn't or he is in denial. But I always find myself criticizing his views quite forcefully and I know he is black so what has that got to do with anything.

          scientia potentia est - Francis Bacon "...knowledge itself is power."

          by factPlusContextAlmostTruth on Thu Nov 25, 2010 at 09:44:13 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  You know what else... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      magurakurin, zizi

      You let people go around here and harass anyone who dares say anything about race relations in the US and the stereotypes that apply to Barack Obama...without any form of moderation.

      I have been accused over and over again, along with others, of being a racist for speaking a truth.

      Obama is black man living in America with all that implies.

      I have never said that anyone who criticizes Obama is a racist.  I've never even seen that said here.  

      But, many people are woefully ignorant of American history and the way black people continue to be treated (including President Obama) by the majority culture.

      But, by all means.  You're the boss.  

      •  Uh-huh. Here are just two recent examples... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        capelza

        ...of letting people harass others over discussing racism "without any form of moderation" here and here.

        Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 07:37:12 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Two... (3+ / 0-)

          That's amazing.

          Might wanna come and visit Black Kos more often and see what folks are saying there.  You and I both know I'm not the only person to see the world in the terms I'm describing.  

          Never have I said that people who have legitimate criticism of Obama are racist.  Not one single time.  

          Yet, over and over again, we are told that RACE has nothing to do with anything.  It's like a new America has suddenly emerged with the election of a black President.  

          Suddenly, the waves have parted and racial issues no longer exist.  Anyone who thinks the man is being treated with discrimination by the hostile media, by the sterotypical language, by the infantalization and the over-the-top criticism is a "race baiter."

          Your site was once a stronghold of Liberal values.  It is no longer.  It's become a mosh pit of intolerance.

          Respectfully...because I know you love this place, even if you work for it.  And, you know that I do to...since I spend so much time here.

          Peace...

          •  Two in the past two days. Not two ever. The... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            capelza

            ...number of people here who say that race has nothing to do with any of the attacks on Barack Obama is extremely small. And those who do so are fools. But not every criticism of him is based on his being African American.

            Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

            by Meteor Blades on Wed Nov 24, 2010 at 07:48:44 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  You are... (2+ / 0-)

              an incredibly intelligent and well-spoken individual whose words carry great weight, as they should.

              You know as well as I do that my original comment insinuated nothing other than the constant and unrelenting criticisms of the President are out of control and whether it is always true or not, many believe (and I believe rightly so due to a clear pattern of historical discrimination) that this has much to do with the color of his skin.

              Every single black man of importance in the last century was called a "Socialist" or a "Communist" and most often by figures within the US Government--A. Phillip Randolph, W.E.B Dubois, MLK and almost ever black intellectual one could name.

              It was racist then and it is racist now.

              Again, most respectfully, this group that you say is "small" and "fool(ish)" is operating quite successfully under the cover of legitimate concerns.  They are having a fucking field day...and good Kossacks...are leaving because of this.  You know this.

              Re-read those comments to which you have provided links.  There are responses there that should be of value to everyone there in Kosland.

              Address it, because the ugly is showing all too much.

              •  Mandela was called communist (0+ / 0-)

                and socialist even though he never uttered a socialist sentence. He just called for his people to be freed.  Powerful truth there. Code words like communist and socialist are so old they don't fool some of us who have lived enough and seen the depravities of white racism practiced with force.

                scientia potentia est - Francis Bacon "...knowledge itself is power."

                by factPlusContextAlmostTruth on Thu Nov 25, 2010 at 09:57:45 AM PST

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          •  I agree with your writing here. (0+ / 0-)

            "infantilization" is a new description I will use becasue I have seen a lot of it here re. Obama bashing.

            scientia potentia est - Francis Bacon "...knowledge itself is power."

            by factPlusContextAlmostTruth on Thu Nov 25, 2010 at 09:48:58 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  I agree MB is being quite unfair and using (0+ / 0-)

        a double standard re your comments.

        scientia potentia est - Francis Bacon "...knowledge itself is power."

        by factPlusContextAlmostTruth on Thu Nov 25, 2010 at 09:46:35 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Some blacks hold other blacks (3+ / 0-)

      to different standards than they do whites. That phenomenon with the white-dominant world view has existed among racial minority groups who have been subject to either slavery or colonialism. Internalized racism among Blacks and other minorities is more common than you think. The fact that someone is Black does not mean that they aren't capable of applying different standards to this president than they would to a white president.

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