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  •  You totally mischaracterize my comment. (13+ / 0-)

    Which, if you publish the whole exchange, counters your conspiracy theory.

    a spook who sits by the door

    by brooklynbadboy on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 05:58:26 PM PST

    •  I included the links (6+ / 0-)

      In order to give access to the full exchange.  The so called conspiracy theory may not even be a bad thing hence all the question the marks what did your editors mean then by let her rip.    

      "The job of the media is not to protect power from embarrassment."

      by Adept2u on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 06:01:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It means speak freely. I do. (12+ / 0-)

        For you to think it means sensationalism says more about your opinion of Daily Kos than it does about my writing.

        a spook who sits by the door

        by brooklynbadboy on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 06:06:00 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  That could be very well true n/t (7+ / 0-)

          "The job of the media is not to protect power from embarrassment."

          by Adept2u on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 06:06:41 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Why all of the gratuitous N-word use (12+ / 0-)

          when you're in mainly whiter, older company?

          That's the part that sits strangely with me still, if I step aside from the actual content of your FP post, which was just rhetorically silly.

          What does the use of the N-word do to advance the narrative in this particular political venue, and to whom is it meant to appeal?

          Fair questions, I think.

          "There are always two parties; the establishment and the movement." - Emerson

          by mahakali overdrive on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 06:15:09 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't. (3+ / 0-)

            Its a rhetorical liscense only black people get to exercise, either in literature, film, comedy or blogging.

            Live with it.

            a spook who sits by the door

            by brooklynbadboy on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 06:22:59 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  No, I support that (9+ / 0-)

              completely. Strongly even. I can't speak to whether or not black folks should, or should not, use the N-word. That the word is contested is something I'm deeply aware of, and have heard many arguments about. The use of it between African-Americans is more than none of my business.

              I can only say that, as a white person, I am profoundly uncomfortable when it's used around me since there's no way to address this back. It shuts the conversation down, in effect. It also seems needlessly inflammatory and over-the-top. If this site is mainly white, which it is, how does the line between "start using the N* word freely" and "be racially sensitive" get handled with that kind of rhetoric?

              To get back to my question, what does the use of the N-word do to advance the narrative in this particular political venue, and to whom is it meant to appeal?

              "There are always two parties; the establishment and the movement." - Emerson

              by mahakali overdrive on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 06:27:09 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  So, you watch Dave Chappelle or read (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Adept2u

                James Baldwin and just fold up because of the word?

                a spook who sits by the door

                by brooklynbadboy on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 06:34:05 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  No, I don't (5+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  scribe, yella dawg, sherijr, Adept2u, princss6

                  but you're conflating literary and other aesthetic works (Chapelle and Baldwin; I'll add Ralph Ellison into the list of honorable writers who use that term openly) with politically persuasive rhetorical works (blogging on the Daily Kos).

                  Is the same language appropriate to each? I would strongly say they aren't.

                  "There are always two parties; the establishment and the movement." - Emerson

                  by mahakali overdrive on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 06:37:16 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  What aboutwhen you overhear black people (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Adept2u

                    using it? Offended?

                    a spook who sits by the door

                    by brooklynbadboy on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 06:39:32 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Yes. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Adept2u, lightshine

                      "It's impossible to wake a man who is pretending to be asleep." - unknown

                      by looking and listening on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 06:40:32 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Not really, to be honest (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Adept2u, soothsayer99

                      That's in personal conversation, which is also not "aesthetic language" or "political language." Three very, very different language situations.

                      Also, online, you can't "see" racial privilege. Including the privilege to converse in one way or another. So it's a decontextualized term here. And I'm still not clear what the point is in using it. It's a total bomb to lob. Why not just say "That's racist." Or something otherwise expressing displeasure without inciting confusion?

                      "There are always two parties; the establishment and the movement." - Emerson

                      by mahakali overdrive on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 06:42:42 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Interesting. (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        mahakali overdrive, Adept2u

                        You should email me. I'll send you some links.

                        a spook who sits by the door

                        by brooklynbadboy on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 06:46:57 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Hm. Okay. (3+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          tmo, Adept2u, princss6

                          I'll email you. Curious to see what you have.

                          I have to get back to work now.

                          I hope you've understood my questions have very much been in earnest, however, and appreciate the dialogue.

                          And just to clarify my lack of discomfort about said terms, my point there is that it's not my place to judge others; I'm well aware of the ongoing debate between AA's surrounding the term, but I'm not here to tell anyone what to think, do, or say. I can only judge my own reactions to what strike me as racially loaded terms. Read that bell hooks piece if you never have. It's just damned beautiful. I just taught it to my college class about a week ago. It should be required reading for living human beings, IMHO. All of ethnicities have their hot button topics. Many are best worked out behind-the-scenes rather than in public view. If you were trying to point out the poster's racism, I understand that. It just didn't carry. Not like ever statement online does. So at least I understand this now. Thanks.

                          "There are always two parties; the establishment and the movement." - Emerson

                          by mahakali overdrive on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 06:54:46 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

            •  BBB, I disagree. (4+ / 0-)

              I am most offended when a black person uses that word. Yes, I know Richard Pryor used it and got mad laughs. Bill Cosby didn't and got paid , too.
              Chris Rock and some of the others use it. But I don't like it. I don't use it!  I don't consider it a term of endearment.

              I consider it vulgar, spiteful, demeaning word especially when used by black on black.

              It doesn't hold any shock value for me. It is a very sad word with a lot of hate in it's history.  

              I am a woman and I don't call myself a bitch and don't want no one else calling me a bitch either.

              But that's me. You do you. If it makes you feel good to use the word to make money, get laughs, or just cuz you like using it, go right ahead. You don't need my approval or any one else.

              Let it rip!  Freedom of speech says you can.

              "It's impossible to wake a man who is pretending to be asleep." - unknown

              by looking and listening on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 06:34:23 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Exactly. nt (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Adept2u

                a spook who sits by the door

                by brooklynbadboy on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 06:37:50 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  I'm a woman. (5+ / 0-)

                Used to write a column entitled "The Opinionated Bitch." Got more angry letters about that than about my highly opinionated opinions, which struck me kind of funny.

                It's just words, used regularly all over America all the time. My father told me that cursing was a sign of inferior vocabulary, and I believe that to a certain extent. But there are occasions when a pithy word or two expresses something better than a tortured word salad ever could.

                Just sounds people make, letters strung together. There are much more important things to get upset about in this world.

                Now, more than ever, we need the Jedi.

                by Joieau on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 07:12:45 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I definitely believe this... (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  sardonyx, blindyone, Adept2u, Joieau

                  My father told me that cursing was a sign of inferior vocabulary, and I believe that to a certain extent

                  and I'd make that statement more strongly, that too frequent cursing shows lack of imagination. When I read something with "fuck" in every sentence, I wonder if that's just the best the writer can do. Some Brits can do the best call-outs I've ever heard or read, and do it with barely an expletive.

                  Slavery is the legal fiction that a person is property. Corporate personhood is the legal fiction that property is a person. -Jan Edwards

                  by SoCalSal on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 07:48:40 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Well... (7+ / 0-)

                    that same very proper father (a senior Naval officer) who never even let out a 'hell' or 'damn' in my presence, got awakened in the middle of the night with a phone call when I was 17. It was the police, they'd arrested my 15-year old brother for vagrancy on his way back from walking his girlfriend home (basic hippie harassment). He was to come bail my brother out, which Dad had absolutely no intention of doing because my brother was not a vagrant and broke no laws. They'd get no extortion out of this. He let loose with a tirade of the most colorful cursing - in several languages! - I'd ever heard from anybody, anywhere, before or since. I didn't know what half of it meant but I'm pretty sure he wasn't talking nice about their mothers.

                    He picked up my brother, received a heartfelt apology from all the police present at the station, and cooly informed them that if they tried such a thing again they'd get to meet a large Marine lawyer and pay my brother's way through college. They never did it again.

                    I guess someone who spent 35 years in the Navy had to learn a few good epithets along the way... ;-)

                    Now, more than ever, we need the Jedi.

                    by Joieau on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 08:09:10 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Good for your dad! (4+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      sardonyx, jabney, princesspat, Joieau

                      That proves that cursing can be very effective in some circumstances.

                      I was about 17 the first time I heard my dad cuss, a big whopper, "Damnation!" when he caused a car accident. Much, much later he developed Alzheimers and his language became more colorful. Maybe that came from working on the railroad.

                      Slavery is the legal fiction that a person is property. Corporate personhood is the legal fiction that property is a person. -Jan Edwards

                      by SoCalSal on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 08:31:01 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I'm older now (5+ / 0-)

                        and have been through kids and grandkids. I understand what set him off that night, because we lost our son from a traffic accident when he was 21. He was awakened from sleep by a call from the police about his son... it had to have scared him half to death in the scant seconds before they told him they just wanted him to come bail the kid out from bogus charges that could never stand in a million years against a 15-year old high school student living at home.

                        His response to that was entirely reasonable in my view, given the provocation. It's a good thing they didn't send a beat cop to the door with that message or that beat cop might have suffered a badly broken face.

                        There are indeed times when cussing is the MOST proper response, leaving absolutely no room for misunderstanding about the reaction evoked, and doing it well enough to impress the type of people who cuss on a regular basis. Flowery words sometimes just won't do the trick.

                        As for withering (but well-spoken) put-downs, my Mom was Queen of that. My hero, because I'm the person who suffers in sputtering silence and only thinks of the perfect put-down later when it's all over.

                        Now, more than ever, we need the Jedi.

                        by Joieau on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 09:43:26 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

            •  I see (4+ / 0-)

              so you can regularly impugn the President's manhood on a blog that's dominated by white men, but if anyone challenges your use of the word "nigger" in this context, they should:

              Live with it.

              Nice.

              Oba-MA bumaye! Oba-MA bumaye!

              by fou on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 06:59:52 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  I don't want to see (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Adept2u, Lost and Found, soothsayer99

              the n word used by anyone. I don't care what color you  are. It is offensive painful and should not be written.  If I had seen it I would have HR'd.  I don't have to "live with it" and your smug, arrogant in-your-face attitude is not working with me at all.  No other group of people accepts slurs on this site and African Americans don't have to accept it either, remember that

              Blessed are the peacemakers

              by lightshine on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 07:44:02 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Actually no (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              skohayes, soothsayer99, lightshine

              Now even in the black community you arent saying nigger around grandmothers unless you're willing to take one in the mouth.  I'm very careful about how I use it and especially here less I give someone license to use it who doesnt understand its only a black license.  I'll use it to illustrate like how the teabaggers called the congressmen nigger in the street cause it should sting there, but the kind of play nigga I saw in your front page was wrong wrong wrong.

              I like to think of it this way in reality how about you?

              "The job of the media is not to protect power from embarrassment."

              by Adept2u on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 08:12:22 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  So does this imply... (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sherijr, Adept2u, Anima, soothsayer99

          that at one point you were told NOT to speak freely.

          the most important factor whether students succeed is not their skincolor or their ZIP code or their parents' income - it is the quality of their teacher

          by princss6 on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 06:37:36 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Bullshit. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lightshine

          It means speak freely. I do.

          You said you drive traffic.  I know you think this is all about you BBB, but it really isn't.

          Oba-MA bumaye! Oba-MA bumaye!

          by fou on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 07:37:08 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I do. (0+ / 0-)

            Which is good. The more the better.

            a spook who sits by the door

            by brooklynbadboy on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 07:38:53 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Duh. (4+ / 0-)

              Of course you speak freely.  Yes BBB, you're a freethinker who's not going to change.  Good for you.  Got it.  Guess what?  I think freely too, and I've used the "n-word" from time to time to make a point too.  I've criticized the President too, so there's "proof" that I'm "rational" just like you.  Yay for me too.  I applaud the fact that you speak freely, as do your many fans in your predominantly white over 50 male audience.

              However, that's not what's at issue.  The issue that when you start talking about the traffic you drive to this site in the context of a statement in which your profess to finding your voice, that raises ethical questions about what motivates your arguments.  When you quip about getting paid per click, that raises the same ethical questions.

              Your editor likely wouldn't have bothered to make any statement in this thread if your statements weren't clouded by such questions.  Do the math homie.  Your editor kindly cleared the air tonight because she had too.

              Oba-MA bumaye! Oba-MA bumaye!

              by fou on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 07:57:22 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Its an issue for you and your clique. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jabney

                But methinks ill ignore it. But if Susan chose not to, I respect that.

                a spook who sits by the door

                by brooklynbadboy on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 08:09:06 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I once got Hr'd into oblivion (4+ / 0-)

                  For referring to another group of people here as a clique.  That is something Susan should look into.  I'm still in that thread and in black kos if you have questions or anything to say about what I said there you can say it there.

                  "The job of the media is not to protect power from embarrassment."

                  by Adept2u on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 08:21:06 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Always keep (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    fou, Pilkington

                    plenty of goodwill to balance out the fucked up shit you might say. Nobody is perfect and some, like me, are just major assholes.

                    I've done it and i'm still around, enemies and all.

                    a spook who sits by the door

                    by brooklynbadboy on Fri Dec 03, 2010 at 08:35:58 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I gotta say, I'm loving me some BBB (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      brooklynbadboy

                      right now, brother! Not the criticism of Obama, but the willingness to stand up for your right and obligation to speak the truth as you see it, in your own unique voice, using the words that you find most appropriate and effective to communicate the point.

                      Myself, I never use the N-word. Not in print, not on the Intertubes, not with friends. But plenty of my friends do, and I have no issue whatsoever with it. Sometimes, there's just not a better word available to them to express a certain thought. And I don't care if they use it around just black people, or white people also, or Latinos, or Asians, whatever. It's their choice, and it's not for me to judge.

                      I honestly don't know why some people obsess as they do about the perceived demographics of Daily Kos. As if any "over 50 white men" aren't perfectly free to click over the Jack and Jill and see what they're saying. Or to Felony Fights for that matter.

                      We live in an increasingly small and interconnected world, where everyone gets to see what everyone else is doing. Trying to keep the N-word somehow sequestered away in exclusively black forums is a futile effort.

                      By all means, whatever you want to say, however you want to say it, "let 'er rip!"

      •  A link assuming no one would read (0+ / 0-)

        This is a common tactic by you, isn't it? You provide the link, but mischaracertizer (i can't use the word I would like to use) what the link says.

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